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Ancient astronomy: Mechanical inspiration
Nature ^
| 24 Nov 2010
| Jo Marchant
Posted on 11/25/2010 2:11:38 AM PST by Palter
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1
posted on
11/25/2010 2:11:43 AM PST
by
Palter
To: SunkenCiv
Antikythera mechanism, etc.
2
posted on
11/25/2010 2:12:13 AM PST
by
Palter
(If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. ~ Mark Twain)
To: Palter
It’s not so far-fetched. After all, the Greeks learned writing from the Phoenicians, so why couldn’t they have picked up an astronomical calender from the Babylonians? I’m referring to the time line, not the device itself. Few cultures exist in isolation, and the Greeks certainly did not.
3
posted on
11/25/2010 2:37:05 AM PST
by
Batrachian
(Celebrating ten years with Free Republic.)
To: Palter
Also on the back it reads “Made in Sparta!”
4
posted on
11/25/2010 2:53:25 AM PST
by
BigCinBigD
(Northern flags in South winds flutter...)
To: BigCinBigD
5
posted on
11/25/2010 4:01:36 AM PST
by
Darth Dan
To: Palter
I am purely guessing but by using the original Greek names for the Gods=Planets makes me think that Hermes = Mercury is at the bottom and working our way clockwise are Aphrodite/Venus, Ares/Mars, Zeus/Jupiter and Kronos/Saturn. I await any correction.
I wonder what Von Daniken alien actually constructed this [/sarc].
Our collective ancestors were SMART and we should be THANKFUL (Thanksgiving Day) for their very real achievements. As Sir Isaac Newton famously wrote “If I have seen further it is only by standing on the shoulders of giants.”
6
posted on
11/25/2010 4:17:27 AM PST
by
SES1066
(Thank you for your vote in November, now let us get to work!)
To: Palter
Very cool article. Thanks for posting.
It makes sense that people who were good at mechanics, and who also studied astronomy, would try to mechanically replicate the motions on the planets, sun, and moon. The Greeks and Babylonians probably tried out all kinds of gearing. The more accurate the results the more likely the device would be reproduced and put into use. The internal workings of an accurate device would be pleasing to those involved in either field. And it seems likely that astronomical theories would be influenced by any really good mechanical device.
Astronomy, mechanics, and calendars are all tied in together - an area of fascination to me.
7
posted on
11/25/2010 4:48:17 AM PST
by
Upstate NY Guy
(Gen 15:16 The iniquity of the Amorite is not yet complete.)
To: Batrachian
Ptolemy absolutely and unequivocally refers to Babylonian observations in Almagest, citing Hipparchus as his source. He also teachs and advocates the Babylonian base 60 number system in the same volume for making calculations, the alternate number systems in use in those days (similar to Roman numbers) were too cumbersome for calculations. The Babylonians kept records of planetary and eclipse observations going back for a couple of millenia by Ptolemy’s time. We are closer in time to Ptolemy than he was to his sources.
The Babylonians never figured out the precession of the equinoxes, something that Hipparchus understood and may have actually discovered. They did know about the variable speed of the sun, basing it on observations of lunar eclipses over many centuries, and correctly deducing that the position of the sun during a lunar eclipse must be opposite the moon, as viewed from the earth.
8
posted on
11/25/2010 4:52:17 AM PST
by
Lonesome in Massachussets
(Socialists are to economics what circle squarers are to math; undaunted by reason or derision.)
To: Palter
To: Palter
Well, looking at history as put forth Biblically, this knowledge came out of Babylon with Abrahm, an astrologer/astronomer, who taught this art to the Egyptians. On that basis I’d say the Greeks acquired it via Egypt, much as they acquired written language via Phoenicians.
To: SES1066
Our collective ancestors were SMART and we should be THANKFUL (Thanksgiving Day) for their very real achievements Amen to that brother. I often think about how smart and resourceful our ancestors must have been. These people figured out how to survive the Ice Age with only stone tools. I wonder how many people living today could figure out how do that?
11
posted on
11/25/2010 5:20:14 AM PST
by
Upstate NY Guy
(Gen 15:16 The iniquity of the Amorite is not yet complete.)
To: Palter
"The ancient Greeks' vision of a geometrical Universe seemed to come out of nowhere."Nowhere? I pretty much stopped reading there. The author is obviously misinformed.
Maybe it came out of a few simple observations, and a little out "of the box" thinking? The observations: The sun is round, the moon is round, the stars are round, the planets are round. The moon revolves around the earth, the sun (seems to) revolve around the earth, the planets (seem to) revolve around the earth, the stars (seem to) revolve around the earth. The out "of the box" thinking: maybe the earth is round, too? Maybe the celestial bodies are a long way away, and revolve around something else?
12
posted on
11/25/2010 5:21:27 AM PST
by
norwaypinesavage
(Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
To: BigCinBigD; Darth Dan
13
posted on
11/25/2010 5:27:54 AM PST
by
SunkenCiv
(The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
Antikythera Mechanism keyword, sorted newest to oldest, excluding this current topic, but including the duplicate topic I posted a few years back [blush]:
14
posted on
11/25/2010 5:28:10 AM PST
by
SunkenCiv
(The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
To: Palter; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; 31R1O; ..
15
posted on
11/25/2010 5:28:41 AM PST
by
SunkenCiv
(The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
World's oldest telescope?
by Dr David Whitehouse
Thursday, July 1, 1999
According to Professor Giovanni Pettinato of the University of Rome, a rock crystal lens, currently on show in the British museum, could rewrite the history of science. He believes that it could explain why the ancient Assyrians knew so much about astronomy. It is a theory many scientists might be prepared to accept, but the idea that the rock crystal was part of a telescope is something else. To get from a lens to a telescope, they say, is an enormous leap. Professor Pettinato counters by asking for an explanation of how the ancient Assyrians regarded the planet Saturn as a god surrounded by a ring of serpents?
16
posted on
11/25/2010 5:30:11 AM PST
by
SunkenCiv
(The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
To: SES1066
.....If I have seen further it is only by standing on the shoulders of giants......
My precise thought. The machine, unbuildable by the Babylonians, was made by a Greek to express dynamically that which was well known but presented statically.
17
posted on
11/25/2010 5:38:16 AM PST
by
bert
(K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 .....( History is a process, not an event ))
To: SunkenCiv
19
posted on
11/25/2010 6:00:13 AM PST
by
SunkenCiv
(The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
- An Ancient Computer Surprises Scientists (2200yo Roman computer!) [2006] -- The Antikythera Mechanism, sometimes called the world's first computer, has now been examined with the latest in high-resolution imaging systems and three-dimensional X-ray tomography. A team of British, Greek and American researchers was able to decipher many inscriptions and reconstruct the gear functions, revealing, they said, "an unexpected degree of technical sophistication for the period." The researchers, led by Tony Freeth and Mike G. Edmunds... said their findings showed that the inscriptions related to lunar-solar motions and the gears were a mechanical representation of the irregularities of the Moon's orbital course across the sky, as theorized by the astronomer Hipparchos. They established the date of the mechanism at 150-100 B.C.
- Scientists Unravel Mystery of Ancient Greek Machine [2006] -- ...The researchers used three-dimensional X-ray scanners to reconstruct the workings of the device's gears and high-resolution surface imaging to enhance faded inscriptions on its surface... The new analysis reveals that the device's front dials had pointers for the sun and Moon -- called the "golden little sphere" and "little sphere," respectively -- and markings which coincided with the zodiac and solar calendars. The back dials, meanwhile, appear to have been used for predicting solar and lunar eclipses. The researchers also show that the device could mechanically replicate the irregular motions of the Moon, caused by its elliptical orbit around the Earth, using a clever design involving two superimposed gear-wheels, one slightly off-center, that are connected by a pin-and-slot device... The team's reconstruction also involves 37 gear wheels, seven of which are hypothetical... Newly revealed inscriptions also appear to confirm previous speculations that the device could also calculate the positions of Mars, Jupiter and Saturn -- the other planets known at the time.
- Discovering How Greeks Computed in 100 B.C. [2008] -- ...applying high-resolution imaging systems and three-dimensional X-ray tomography, have experts been able to decipher inscriptions and reconstruct functions of the bronze gears on the mechanism. The latest research has revealed details of dials on the instrument's back side, including the names of all 12 months of an ancient calendar... No month names on what is called the Metonic calendar were previously known, the researchers noted. Such a calendar, as well as other knowledge displayed on the mechanism, illustrated the influence of Babylonian astronomy on the Greeks. The calendar was used by Babylonians from at least the early fifth century B.C.
20
posted on
11/25/2010 6:16:32 AM PST
by
SunkenCiv
(The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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