Posted on 07/26/2009 5:55:44 AM PDT by decimon
I suggest you read the book in my comment #19. Suvorov proves that the Soviets were only caught by surprise in the sense they were deployed to attack and not defend, resulting in the rapid German advance at the onset.
Sorry Mr. Roberts, but it WAS the wintry conditions that led to the defeat. Had it NOT been for the wintry conditions the German's "wrong" clothing would have been ok. Sheesh.
Another example of logistical supply lines not being able to keep up with the forward advance of the invading army. Once beyond paved roads and rail lines that could be comandeered, the resupply from behind was badly bogged down.
When Patton made his second crossing of the Rhine, one of the things he prepared for was that the rear eschelon quartermaster supply lines were to be kept full and to keep on coming. Supply trucks (the ‘Red Ball Express’) did not make return trips when they had delivered their loads. When they ran out of fuel, they waited there for resupply from behind for refueling and reloading of more vital supplies.
Any number of Studebakers and Dodges and GMCs got used up in that forward rush. And in 1946, most of them were simply abandoned, or sold for nominal prices, to the Germans and Austrians, who used these vehicles to get commerce moving again in their war-torn countries.
Like saying that it was the lack of an oven mitt and not the hot pan that burned you.
Germany started the campaign 2 months late due to Italy’s blunder in Yugoslavia and Greece. What was left was an impossible time line.
The winters of the early 40’s were much, much colder than average.
German uniforms and other supplies did not count on a winter campaign or a protracted campaign of any kind.
Hitler refused to hold up the attack and allow his generals to choose good defensive ground.
There is no doubt clothing played a part, but it was merely a symptom, not the actual disease.
The Russians were brutal enough to afford losses of 10 to 1 and did. (I don’t know the actual numbers, however, I do know what the Russians did in battle)
There were some huge tactical mistakes made, one of which was attacking without consideration of the logistics involved.
Most of the mistakes that were made in Russia, though, can be traced directly to Hitler trying to run the Russian front.
>>>>”wrong clothing..... not winter”>
?????????
That is nonsensical!
Hitler should have waited for Global Warming before attacking.
Too bad he DELAYED the invasion by 6 weeks to help out Mussolini.
Suvorov’s “Icebreaker” is at best hard to believe. I’ve not seen any other source claiming that Uncle Joe had set up the Krauts.
After reading the book, I wondered if perhaps Suvorov had become a Stalin apologist. But even if that is not the case, if Stalin was planning to go on the offensive, why did he purge the Red Army, eliminating such luminaries as Tukchevsky, leading theorist of the Deep Attack?
bttt
Not to mention also the mass murder Hitler did in the USSR, especially on Jews in Ukraine. Many Russians and Ukrainians thought the Germans were their salvation from the Soviets. They were ready to assist.
And as to the cold, a Russian i know said they have a saying. “Its not that a Siberian can stand the cold better than anyone else, they just know how to dress correctly for it.”
Stalin was not caught by surprise. He knew that he could absorb the losses and he didn’t care if the soon to be buffer states got looted, he wanted them to be weaker after the war, that way they would be easier to control.
Suvorov addresses the purges, but I don't remember how. As for the rest of the book, his conclusions can be accepted or they can not be . . . but he does a pretty good job of challenging some prevailing assumptions.
Ref: the purges. One theory is that the SD set up the Soviet General Staff with phony evidence of them as traitors. Stalin, being the raving paranoid he was, did what was anticipated - he eliminated much of the talent the Red Army possessed at the operational level.
Extrapolating from this, there are two plausible reasons for this SD operation - attack the Red Army’s ability to defend the Motherland, or, going along with what you’re saying, attack it’s ability to conduct strategic offensive operations.
I’ll take a look for the book next R&R.
Sounds like British historian Andrew Roberts is a bit of an idiot.
If the winter was not a factor, why in the world would Roberts claim they needed "woollen hats, gloves, long johns and overcoats?"
Sheesh.
The Russians are said to have had multiple armies in reserve of which the Germans were not aware. Once the Germans were committed into the stalemate at Stalingrad and suffering, their army was enveloped and destroyed.
Interesting choice of words. During the late 1930’s heyday of the Nazi era, what we refer to as Indian summer, the glorious weather of early autumn that lingers on, was known in Germany as “Hitler Weather”.
Interesting choice of words. During the late 1930’s heyday of the Nazi era, what we refer to as Indian summer, the glorious weather of early autumn that lingers on, was known in Germany as “Hitler Weather”.
Hitler’s biggest mistake was being a murdering fascist dictator. Using meth daily was also not a great idea.
Stalin ignored the build up on the border because of that reasoning.
However, he used the age old Russian tactic of retreating until winter set in, he knew Hitler's supply lines would stretch out, he moved his factories out of range of Hitlers short range two engine bombers, he built the T34, which was better than the existing German main tank, the MarkIV, forcing Hitler to build a new tank(two in fact), he built new aircraft, among them the Sturmovich(spelling?)which were better than Germany's planes.
Although the T34 was a good tank it was not better than the soon to appear Tiger and Panther models, however Stalin did what America did to win the war, he out produced Hitler.
Hitler also made a huge mistake in killing off Russian civilians who at first thought Germany was a savior for them. Hitler made a lot of mistakes but he didn't attack Russia because Russia was planing on attacking Germany, they weren't. Hitler thought they were because that is what he would do.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.