Ya'll want some cheese with your whine? |
Posted on 01/05/2008 8:05:45 PM PST by BigJohn44
"The illegal tactics the New England Patriots evidently employed Sunday against the New York Jets -- capturing signals and corresponding audio with a sideline camera -- might have allowed the Patriots to sniff out blitzes had security officials not intervened, scouts and coaches said.
"With the computer and video technology, you can dial it up at halftime," an AFC personnel evaluator said. "You can say, 'This is their such-and-such blitz. We'll give you the signal, the code word, and let you know it's coming.'" " (emphasis added).
(Excerpt) Read more at sports.espn.go.com ...
The cheating did not just involve illegal videotaping. The Patriots also illegally recorded the audio of opposing defensive coaches, all of whom undoubtedly had the expectation that their utterances to their players were private. Sando wrote:
"The illegal tactics the New England Patriots evidently employed Sunday against the New York Jets-- capturing signals and corresponding audio with a sideline camera -- might have allowed the Patriots to sniff out blitzes had security officials not intervened, scouts and coaches said."
See http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=sando_mike&id=3017542 (emphasis added).
When the audio and video were both stolen and used in combination, the Patriots were able to, in effect, step into their opponents' defensive huddle.
As the associated press reported regarding the 2005 Super Bowl, which the Patriots "won," 24-21:
"Every time the Eagles rushed Brady in the Super Bowl, the Patriots nullified the defensive attack with screen passes. Lots of them. On almost every play defensive coordinator Jim Johnson called for a blitz, the Patriots used the short pass to confuse the Eagles."
See http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3017964
The idea that knowing what the opponent was going to do did not give the Patriots an unfair advantage is absurd. They "won" three super bowls this decade by a lousy three points each.
The Patriots cheating scandal is primarily a story of eavesdropping on private conversations. Many who excuse away the cheating have failed to recognize that key fact. The conduct of Belichick and the Patriots was outrageous, and has left their accomplishments utterly tainted.
They cheated. They got caught. They were penalized for it. Perfect season with a question mark.
So, after being caught in the first game of the season, did they manage to do a better job of hiding it? Or did they obliterate the rest of the league with football skills?
Doens’t matter. At work, you get fired. At school you get kicked out. In the military you get shot.
New England should have been stripped of ANY honor this year, period. As a lesson.
Point is they CHEATED! Plain and simple! NO IF’S OR BUTS!
Isnt it obvious? They probably have a whole bunch of other ways that they are cheating. I always thought their coach looked a little shifty.
I wish the Disney owned media empire was as upset when Democrats cheat in debates and elections...
By compiling an artificially inflated number of "wins" over the last few years, the Patriots have been able to attract top talent such as Randy Moss for below market rates. See, for example, http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/news/story?id=2853116
Moss and arguably Wes Welker engineered their way onto the Patriots not for money but for the chance to win a super bowl. The Patriots cheating undermined league parity and enabled them to enjoy unfair advantages over other teams bidding for the services of players like these.
They must have lost their next 15 3/4 games then........
Damn! Good thing the Pats got caught or they would have done even better than 16-0!
Hah hah. I love listening to people stew over it...
It’s great...:)
Either the Pats are much better coached and managed to get a lot more out of studying film that the other teams do, or they have some other way of doing this that hasn’t been discovered yet.
They seem able to thwart other teams consistently and sometimes magically. Brady is pretty much amazing but if he knew what was going to happen he would look even more amazing.
The part that I can’t make sense of is why don’t former coaches of the Pats use the same tactics to prepare their teams? When Walsh coached the 49ers and revolutionized the offense, other coaches under him took the plan to their new teams. Nobody appears to be able to duplicate what the Pats are doing though. Curious.
So, why did they feel the need to cheat in the first place?
Why was Commissioner Goodell so quick on the draw? Perhaps he saw an enormous scandal getting ready to blow open?
average running game. Average defense. Best quarterback in history. Belecheck's only contribution is helping Brady. They are a one dimensional team of big plays. Big plays occur when you know what the defense is going to do. Bullsh*tek is still cheating, he just hasn't been caught.
I didn't even hear about this until I attended my husband's company Christmas party where I heard about it standing in the buffet line. I knew there was a reason I didn't want the Patriots to win that last game. How can a team hold their head high knowing they are cheaters?
The Patriots should have a new spokesman: Bill Clinton. Or, if he’s not available, James Carville.
Hey, he cheated and got caught, but still won every election.
| Ya'll want some cheese with your whine? |
The NFL did a huge favor to Bill Belichick by making him focus more on his own team instead of the other teams. They made him realize he is even more of a genius than previously thought.
When Charlie Wies and Maginin left, lots of people said Belachick was all done. They left and it was like they were never there.
Patriots are going all the way. There’s no one that can touch them. Matter of fact, other than the Giants, I haven’t seen them have to ‘turn on’ their game. There biggest struggle is boredom.
Belichick - - Coach of the Year.
Brady - - MVP.
When are you whiners going to hang up your crying towels?
They got a lesson - - the coach was fined - - the team was fined - - and they lost a first-round pick.
What are you going to do when Dallas gets their ass kicked? (and I sincerely hope it’s at the hands of the Patriots.)
Grow a pair and quit whining.
How is San Francisco, San Diego and Oakland doing?
Another whiner!
This is not a comparison of other teams; that tactic is for liberals. The issue is everybody playing by the same rules.
The Patriots are winners....like the two Senators from Massachusetts.....I won’t be proud of any of them.
That’s just stupid. The whole thing is stupid. They paid the fines, it’s OVER people get a freaking life. As for “below market value”, exactly what was the market value of Moss, a player who’d had a lot of discipline problems in Minnesota and hadn’t had a decent statistical year since mooning the Packers faithful? Also what’s the market value of a guy who’s made it clear he’s done with his current team, you have no trade leverage then. As for Welker Dolphin fans still insist he’s not that good.
Because the first tape had already leaked to the press. Anything shown on TV is fair game for usage by teams, if any of that footage had leaked (a probability that had already been demonstrated) then all the teams, including the Pats, could have used it. The audio was part of the video, just like your home VHS/ digital stuff.
Really anybody that thinks the tape destruction was done to hide evidence needs to explain why they busted the Pats in the first place. If Goodell wanted to prevent a scandal the much more efficient way is to tell the Jets to suck it up and never bust the Pats. Even more efficient would have been to make sure the competition committee have helmet radios to the defense this off season and end the thing that causes taping in the first place.
You need to pay attention to the last 5 games, they actually have developed a solid running game. That’s the problem with sports talking head, they figure out their points for the season by the end of week 3, since then the Pats have actually changed quite a bit. And they’re #4 in total defense. So that’s 2 out of 3 you got wrong.
If the guy taping had taken 15 steps backwards (putting him in the front row of the stands), this would have been legal. Also, how did they capture the "corresponding audio" from the far sidelines? Maybe it was from the black helicopter hovering overhead.
Brady - - MVP.
Patriots - - CHEATERS.
There we go. Now we have a complete list, ey Beckwad.
Now, ask yourself which of these items will be most remembered by NFL fans. Yeah, hate to tell ya. It's the cheating.
I think Jacksonville is the team that can be New England!
Hey um, Disco, or whatever your handle is:
Your post is just this side of illiterate. And mine was stupid?
It was reported that Moss gave financial concessions to facilitate the trade to New England; and that he did so for the chance of winning a super bowl. You dispute it; but it was reported and I provided a cite.
The point is, had the Patriots not cheated for several years to compile an artificially good record, guys like Moss would not whore themselves out at below-market rates.
The NFL has a carefully crafted parity system based on revenue sharing and a salary cap. The Patriots' cheating undermined this system and we are still seeing the consequences.
That is not correct. Any team employee is prohibited from videotaping anywhere but in the enclosed coaches' box. Even fans in the stands are not supposed to videotape.
The ESPN article originally quoted stated that the Patriots recorded audio of private conversations. Apparently you are disputing this fact with some inane reference to a black helicopter. All I can say is, I cited a source; you did not.
Of course he gave financial consideration, given the last few years for Moss nobody was going to pay his old salary. Remember when this trade happened the pundits were evenly split, this was either one of the greatest trades ever, or one of the stupidest, Moss was either going to be inspired back into his old form on the field, or continue his team poisoning ways off. Given what a 50/ 50 proposition Moss was a 4th round pick and a pay cut was the right call. So again, how was this “below market value”, and the market value for a guy that totaled 31 starts, 151 receptions, and 24 TDs in the last three seasons combined isn’t very high.
The point is you’re wrong. Prior to this season it looked like Moss’ glory days were behind him. He was a 29 year old discipline case that had lost a step, had missed games in 2 of his last 3 seasons, punished with a missed start in the other, and had all around had a dramatic drop in productivity. His market rate was low, he was being shown the door from the discipline case team. While it’s easy now, AFTER his best season ever, to say he was a steal, but when the trade was made his most recent season had resulted in 42 catches, 3 TDs, and 553 total yards. The post 2006 version of Randy Moss was a possible washup looking for one last gasp at a good career.
And that kind of kills your whole premise. Pretty much anybody you can complain about the Pats getting cheap actually DESERVED to be cheap. Welker had had a total of 3 starts, 97 catches and, 1 TD for his entire 4 season career. Pick a guy they’ve picked up, any guy any year, look at their career before the Pats, especially the last 2 or 3, every last one of them there’s a good reason they were cheap. Their success isn’t built on a stilted win percentage getting them players below market value, their success is built on understanding why some players aren’t playing well and figuring out that they’re actually worth more than their market value.
If the Pats make it to Glendale, I’ll be for whoever the NFC rep is. Hopefully it’ll be Dallas. Two reasons. One, I’m a Cowboys fan. Second, it’ll make allCowboys haters HAVE to pull for Dallas. Look, it’s only for four hours, then you can go back to hating them again. Green Bay or Dallas has a better shot at beating the Pats than either the Giants or Seattle. I hope one of them does.
There’s nothing about the Pats that could ever make me root for the Cowboys. Not while Jones lives, and by the time he’s dead the Cowboys will be a dome team. There’s really only a small fringe of people deeply addicted to sour grapes that have any issues currently with the Pats, and those people always find a reason to whine.
Has anybody else noticed that the logo on the helmet looks like a profile view of john kerry with a star spangled bicycle helmet.
Silly person — that’s “Football Elvis”
This is beyond childish. A camera with both video AND audio is just unbelievable! (/sarc) It didn't say there was a separate camera and a separate audio capture device. Get real.
The following comments that go from charging some unfair mystical ability to some complete war room cheating operation is beyond belief. Since their regrettable action in the first quarter of the first game of the first season with the new rule in effect and somehow it is supposedly proof, when combined with their phenomenal season led by a three-time Super Bowl Champion quarterback, that they have accomplished nothing without cheating. Truly childish. Double-childish when the source material is from September and presented as some kind of overlooked coup evidence.
I write this as the Patriots just beat the Jacksonville 31-20. Ha, Ha! GO PATS!
This is why Boston sports fans are just universally adored. You can’t acknowledge that you ever get any breaks. Ever.
The Patriots are a great team. They’re also one of the luckiest teams in the league. If Reggie Wayne holds on to a pass that hits him perfectly and Adam Vinatieri doesn’t miss a chip shot field goal, the Colts are likely 16-0. If Reggie Wayne holds on to that same pass and Mike Carey’s officiating crew does their job properly, the Patriots are 14-2. (You can refer to at least two instances of pure luck against the Ravens, both fourth down failures which were saved, or the holding call on Ben Watson on the last drive.) Now, Mike Carey and his crew did the Seahawks-Packers game yesterday. The Packers played their usual physical pass defense. Penalties were at a minimum. This goes to show you that the same referees can have incredibly different views on what defensive holding is. (Had the Ravens did what the Packers did, which I believe is legal anyway, they probably would’ve been ejected and fined.)
The Patriots’ offensive line is one of the best in the league. They are rarely called for false starts, which shows their discipline. They are also rarely called for holding, which shows luck. Going back eight years this has been a complaint about the Patriots. They often get away with offensive holding. Of course, that breeds fewer calls - teams that are called for holding get called more for holding because the officials begin to look at it.
Randy Moss has become the modern-day Jerry Rice in that he can seemingly throw the defensive back to the ground and, if anything, the DB will be the one penalized. When’s the last time Moss was called for offensive pass interference?
None of this means the league wants the Patriots to win or anything like that. What it does mean is that the Patriots are certainly lucky, and I wish people would acknowledge that.
(I do believe, however, that what the referees did to the Ravens in that game was criminal.)
Is it even worth it to point out that the league didnt make the charge that audio was also taped? Probably not. Sore losers will take the word of some low level and unnamed scout who most likely has no more knowlege of the facts than the posters on this thread. You know it was a Colts or Jets scout too.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.