Looking for freeper parents (birth, adopted and foster) advice

www.cronos.com ^ | 30 June 2016 | Cronos

[Cronos]

Hi all, am looking for your advice about the following topic (we've also consulted various other people - more at the end of this thread)

Here's the background situation

- we help with a local orphanage and foster care for children.

A friend of ours (who is a foster parent herself with 2 kids added to her 3 birth-kids) became friends with a poor uneducated lady who lives in a village outside the city. This lady has 2 children: an 8 year old boy and a 5 year old girl - each from different fathers -- and now she is 8 months pregnant with the third (from another man). She's never been married to any of these men

The kids seem to have been truly loved by their mother and the mother loves them, but the mother's parents are drunks and we know they beat her (the mother) and she went to her boyfriends.

Despite all of this, the children are good -- they were dirty living with their mother (baths once a week etc) and not quite "civilised" -- but not evil or even bad kids

Our friend is godmother to the girl (a priest convinced her 5 years ago it would be best for the child to have some contact with a "different normal")

One week ago our friend got an urgent call from the mother -- it seems that she was kicked out of the house by her parents and she and the boyfriend and the kids had no where to go but the streets or worse to a state institution (and then, horrors, be shuffled through the system, that is soul-crushing)

So our friend decided to take in the kids into their house - but she was to go on a 2 week holiday with her kids on the 25th. She called around asking if anyone could take in the kids for the two weeks. Her (the friend's)parents took in the boy and she called 20 other people for the girl, but only we volunteered (it was short notice, so can't blame the others).

The girl came to us - she's quiet and sweet and we have a 5 year old son, so the two of them have been playing well together.

But the girl is deeply attached to her mother and was crying at times for her mother, so we would call up the mother for them to talk. Her mother sounds nice and seems to genuinely care for the child.

The boyfriend, we're not sure -- he doesn't sound so nice, and is a drunk and after all, these are not his kids

We asked the mother point blank if she had found a place and could take the girl back with her -- we decided that the little girl could stay with us otherwise (not very legal, even though we have a written consent from the mother that the girl is on "holiday" -- I insisted on this) but the best would be back to her mother as we don't want her in an orphanage or in the foster-care "system".

The mother seems to have reached an agreement with her boyfriends parents that they would all stay with the boyfriends parents and they could take her back this weekend. We intend on taking her back there - with the new clothes, shoes, toys, books etc. that we've got her

That's the background. Now here's my dilemma:

• I can't imagine the boyfriends' parents being happy about taking in a woman who has two kids from two different men (other than their son) and doesn't seem to be about to marry him.
• I have doubts about the boyfriend's willingness to take in these kids. He says he wants to take them, but well, I doubt -- I haven't met him face-to-face, so can't say for certain
• I have no doubts about the mother's love for her children or their love for her
• BUT, I know that she can't give them more stability than just her love.
• I know that they would live in an environment that would condemn them to the cycle of poverty and never being able to break out.
• I have a strong fear that they would be subject to violence (I hope I'm wrong).

  What can we do?

  1. Report the dirt and other things to the authorities? I don't know what the authorities would do if they would do anything at all -- we're willing to be foster parents or even adopt the children.
  2. But the loving bond between mother and children -- it's not right to break it, it's not right.
  3. should we wait until "something" happens? but then would this not potentially damage the children? Perhaps there would never be any "something" but the kids would be mired in this cycle of poverty that they could not escape
  4. The friend and we thought that perhaps we could find some "home for single mothers", but all the homes expect the lady to stay for a few months top and then work - and this lady has never worked, we don't think she's even educated. We could take the mother away from the environment, but this is all she knows about - would she even want to leave?
  For the long term I just can't see any but this "wait and watch" option -- also note that we live quite far away from the mother, so it's not that we could monitor how the kids are. Our friend lives closer, but with 5 kids its difficult to monitor and she also lives 50 km away.

  Any advice or suggestions fellow freepers? NOTE that this is in Poland, not the USA - the system is different, probably worse than the USA. We've asked friends, family, support groups and the only advice they give us is the wait and watch. I think that's the right one, but perhaps you could show us a different, better way for the child?

[Rapscallion]

Stop digging deeper into the pit. Raise your standards of friends. Realize there is much misery and wrong in the world and you cannot do anything about it except to lead a moral ethical life yourself and LEAD others to follow your path.

[Cronos]

hmmm... my friend is the one helping this child (through us) — the mother we described is not a friend of ours.

[freemama]

The best way to support those children is to support their mother. She needs help in becoming an independent, self supporting adult. Do what you can to get her there.

[Cronos]

you are correct. Perhaps keeping in contact with her and finding opportunities for her. thank you

[Robert DeLong]

Isn't it ironic that her parents were drunks and abused her and now she is hooked up with a drunk for a boyfriend. Not a good choice for the children. One can only shake their head at how people always seem to gyrate towards the same conditions of abuse, and the cycle continues on.

I would have to agree that the wait & watch (even though it seems like the watch is the difficult part of the equation), is the best solution along with prayer. Especially since you say the conditions of the alternatives are bad.

Believe me though, our system is not all that great either as there have been numerous horror stories told. Far to many of those working in the system, it is just a job and the child's well being is not a concern for them at all. On the flip a percentage (don't know how big or small that percentage is) of the foster families are only in it for the extra money, and again the child is abused in one form or fashion.

[momtothree]

Cronos, this is a horrible situation. Moreover, I admittedly don’t know a single thing about Poland/child services/etc.... Your question is an extremely difficult one because WHAT the mother wants/seeks is different than what the kids NEED. I understand that the Mother/Child bond is there... unfortunately, I’ve seen kids in the E.R. crying for the same Mother that burned them with cigarettes. My point is she isn’t being a “great” Mom by having child after child with different men and living with an abusive/violent jerk. That being said, perhaps your friend can offer to take the children if the Mother needs someone to. She can also have a nice sit down and calmly/lovingly offer advice and WHY her life needs to change. Unfortunately.. in the end... situations like this one exist everywhere and yes... it breaks your heart for the little ones. I know this isn’t what you probably wanted to hear but it is my honest assessment. Prayers for those poor kids...

[Raycpa]

Two axioms I use in similar situations. 1.do what is best interests of children 2. Support the mom. How they are applied depends on situation. At the very least you can provide support in being available to watch children which gives you insight on how they are doing. Offer to take child one or two days per week to give other caretakers a break. Get mom into church family for access to other support network and spiritual guidance. Pray with mom. Encourage mom to make better choices regarding men and her ability to support herself. Stay connected.

[Auntie Mame]

Sounds like everyone is doing everything right. We are all here on earth to live our own experiences and learn our own lessons.

You already have your answer: The children love their mother, the mother loves her children.

I know it can break your heart sometimes, but we’ve got to live and let live.

[Cronos]

the "ironic" part -- I would recommend reading Theodore Dalrymple's "Life at the bottom" -- which is what worries me.

Women such as this may be well meaning and nice, but all they may know about is this environment. The author wrote about men who went from one physically abusive boyfriend to another (I don't know about this case) and when the boyfriend was NOT physically abusive, the woman would leave the guy saying he was not passionate enough -- weird, right? But we don't see this as the norm, perhaps they do

For this poor woman's case, the only thing I can say is that it seems that she, herself, does not beat the children and THAT is a miracle.

Prayer, yes, the only way. Thank you

[Cronos]

Thank you for your reply - my friend will probably offer to take the children, she's open to that (she's a caring woman who already took two girls, sisters into her home).

It was due to God alone that the mother met my friend.

[Cronos]

Thank you. It does break my heart. In a way it would be clearer if the mother was actively abusive or didn't care for the children (and we've seen the latter) - but this is not the case.

I lean towards Raycpa and Momtothree's advice - our friend and we will stay connected to the mother, letting her know that anytime she needs help, we are all there for her.

The support network is a good idea. Prayer with the mom and being able to watch the children is a bit hard due to the distances, but we'll offer to take them for the "holidays" (that's what we told the little girl now that she's just with us for her holidays and will go back to mom as she was scared that her mother left her).

[CGASMIA68]

What can we do?

Mind your own business may be a start

[momtothree]

The amazing part of love, Cronos... is you don’t see the lasting effects right now. My Mom (bless her soul) was friends with a couple that was quirky/didn’t have their stuff together. Their children would “visit” Mom/us when things got too bad at home. Mom would treat them like another one of her kids... “You need a shower at night”, “Try a green bean.. it won’t kill you”, “Good night, love you and thank God for a good day”.. I saw those boys.. now men.. at Mom’s funeral. They told me that SHE gave them the idea that a family CAN be normal (not fighting, and full of woe), and she was the one that “got them through” really bad times. The biggest compliment toward my Mom came from the one man who said, “I try to copy your parents with my kids”. Any seed of normalcy/love/hope is one planted deep and will stay with those little ones forever (hopefully blossoming at some point). God Bless.

[Katya]

I don’t know what the social system is like in Poland, in terms of fostering etc but these children were not being cared for.
Children will love their mother regardless of what she has put them through, because she is the only stable element in their life even if her behavior is unstable.

Social service agencies often leave children with their parent, because they have deemed “attachment” as the primary goal. Attachment disorders are very rare, and yet social agencies warn that removing children will put them at risk. The data does not support this, even from the social agencies.
This woman should not have her children until she organizes herself and her life. By remaining with her, the children will likely model the same behavior.

If there are willing and responsible adults to take them in, these children will at least have a chance at a positive future.

[Cronos]

Sorry, but that's rotten advice -- and let me explain why - while we were helping out some kids, we met a father who sadly told us that he wished he had been adopted. We found out more about his (the father's) situation and believe me, the father was dealt a terrible hand - 99.99% he would be at the bottom where he is. He wanted something more for the child and saw that the mother didn't want the child (but he did), so he accepted the child being placed in a loving home and the child now calls him uncle (it probably breaks the man's heart, but he is doing it for the child).

Minding your own business when it comes to an adult is 100% accurate, minding your business when the child is abused is 0% accurate, but this case that I describe is in-between. I do not, do not want to involve the authorities and see no desperate need to (the child is not being abused), but I believe the advice of the ladies in post #12 is better - help the mother with prayer, support etc.

[healy61]

And take up a hobby other than the life of the people in you question.

[faucetman]

a little advice.... as when calling into a radio talk show,

GET TO THE POINT!

People don’t want to listen or read all the details BEFORE they know what the main point is.

This sounds like a made up internet STORY. <-——point

“(baths once a week etc) “ what a hardship???? Many of us grew up taking “(baths once a week etc)” Saturday night, maybe?

I stayed in my grandmothers apartment (in PARIS, yes France), when I was a kid, in 1955 and 1961. They were not poor, we were. She didn’t have a telephone and the entire floor (4 apartments) shared the same hall bathroom. Civilized? For Paris at that time, yes. Back home in the USA, we rented half of an old farmhouse for $50 a month. We had a phone and our own bathroom, where we took baths once a week.

I don’t know about life in Poland, but it ain’t the USA.

You live in POLAND? This happened (supposedly) in POLAND?

This is the USA, how would people HERE be able to give you sage advice about life in POLAND?

I’m sorry, I’m calling BS on this story.

[Cronos]

The system in Poland is kind of like how it is stateside but with lesser resources. If they did find out how the children are being cared for, they would probably act.

You are so completely right about the children's love for their mother

And you are completely correct about the children modelling the same behaviour -- I want to stop that, I want to give these children an opportunity to step out of this cycle that it seems at least two generations of their family has been through.

I'm going to wait and watch and if the mother can't look after these kids or worse the authorities take them from her, I'm going to adopt them -- the mother can freely meet the kids while they are with us, so hopefully we could give them the best of both worlds. I'm just not sure about taking them away from her by the authorities. Maybe my friend would chat and talk to her and my wife and I will keep in contact with the mother.

[Cronos]

I love your post #14. There is hope and there is love. God bless you and bless your mom, I’m sure you were and ARE proud of her and Jesus is keeping her close with Him while they look down on us from heaven.