Posted on 03/28/2016 3:54:14 AM PDT by grundle
Bush and Obama each had a program where the U.S. government put guns into the hands of Mexican criminals. Bushs program was called Operation Wide Receiver, and Obamas program was called Operation Fast and Furious. However, there were three major differences between the two programs:
First, Bushs program was carried out with the knowledge, permission, and cooperation of the Mexican government, whereas Obamas program was not. Mexican attorney general Marisela Morales told the Los Angeles Times that she first learned about Obamas program from the news, and said, In no way would we have allowed it, because it is an attack on the safety of Mexicans.
Secondly, many of the guns used in Bushs program contained radio tracking devices, whereas most of the guns used in Obamas program did not. In addition, under Bushs program, U.S. federal agents followed the guns to see whose hands they ended up in, whereas with Obamas program, U.S. federal agents were ordered not to do this.
Third, Bushs program did not cause any known deaths, whereas Obamas program did.
What on earth was the rationale behind “Fast and Furious”?
Was it conceived in the irrational leftist belief that if you give your enemies and violent criminals everything they want, they will become nice people?
I just don’t get it.
wtf does ‘most’ mean?
>whereas most of the guns used in Obamas program did not. <
just say it.
I don’t feel like researching this
how effin many?
Fast and Furious was a PR campaign for gun control.
The idea was to get hundreds of guns sold in the US to private individuals across the border in to Mexico and thereby in to the hands of Mexican criminals.
These guns illegally imported in to Mexico would then be used in crimes; specifically murders.
The guns would then be traced back to their point of sale in the US.
Then the PR campaign could begin to place onerous restrictions on the sale of small arms to private individuals all in the name of the innocent Mexican victims.
The UN treaty on small arms of course is a huge part of this plan.
Fast & Furious was conceived as an attack on our 2nd Amendment rights.
The idea was to get enough American-sourced weapons into the hands of the Mexican drug cartels that it would feed a demand for new controls on the sale of weapons in the US.
Despite the (spurious) stated intentions of Fast & Furious, there was no attempt whatsoever to track the weapons once they left the gun stores. Some ATF agents were puzzled by this and actually bought tracking devices out of their own pockets.
Obama, Holder and Hillary all began making noises about the 'plague of American-sourced weapons' that were somehow falling into the hands of the cartel just before the scheme was inadvertently revealed by the shooting of Brian Terry, a Border Patrol agent.
Not deaths, murders of a federal agents by a drug smugglers set up by the Obama administration to further Obama's agenda for removal of our Second Amendment rights to protect us from a over reaching totalitarian and abusive FERAL Government. Talking about the two FBI agents inside Mehico and the BP Agent.
That is the Third BIG difference.
Well, you have had some good informational responses to your question.
But all the responses leave out one important comment. That is, the GOP members of Congress have done NOTHING to get to the bottom of this treason.
My God, we had government officials PLEADING THE FIFTH!
I pray that when it comes to Fast & Furious, that President Trump will eschew any talk and activity of being a ‘unifier’ and will move quickly to reopen the investigation, this time with the full prosecutorial capacity and intensity of the DOJ.
Holder, Obama and so many others need to be held accountable. This was treason against the United States, pure and simple.
Perhaps the reason was to get people killed, and then use that as an excuse for more gun control.
The source that is linked to used the word “most.” That’s all I know.
That’s a great explanation.
I have been working for a small federal law enforcement agency for the last 8 years. In that time I have never worked with anybody, in either DOJ or DHS, that purposely put contraband into play. There has always been an overabundance of concern and planning to avoid losing either guns, drugs, or anything else illegal during an investigation. That means burning the case before loosing the contraband.
For ATF to purposely let guns go is so far out of touch with reality that other agencies in AZ stopped working with them.
The Department of Justice s Operation Fast and Furious: Accounts of ATF AgentsAgent Casa recounted a similar situation. He had also never heard of, nor seen, guns being allowed to walk until he got to Phoenix:
. . . . But from the time I started as an ATF special agent . . . up until the time I got to Phoenix, that was my understanding, that we do not let guns walk, absolutely, positively not. And if we if ever a case [where]we would do that, there better be a really good explanation why we did not grab that gun when we could.
Q. But that changed when you came to Phoenix, I mean the practice at least changed, correct?
A. Yes.
(snip)
As Agent Dodson testified:
Q. Based on our training and experience, what did you think about [walking guns]?
A. It was something I had never done before, sir. And quite frankly, I took great issue with it and concern.I felt like I understand the importance of going after the bigger target, but there is a way to do that. We did it successfully in the dope world all the time. And those skills and practices that we used there, a lot of them transfer over, and more than applicable in gun trafficking investigations, but we werent allowed to use any of them.
Q. And did you ever have a recollection of sharing your frustration with Special Agent Casa?
A. Oh, yes, sir.
Q. And any other special agents that you can
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And maybe you could just tell us what other agents you
A. Pretty much everyone, sir. It was, I shared my reservations and concerns with Special Agent [L], with Dave Voth, with Special Agent [D]Special Agent [H], Special Agent Alt, Special Agent [P], several of the special agents that came on the GRIT, G-R-I-T. The gunrunner initiative is what it stands for. I shared them with or I voiced my concerns to other agents inside the Phoenix field division that was on other groups.
(snip)
Despite this e-mail, agents continued to experience dismay and frustration as Operation Fast and Furious continued along its perilous path. As Agent Casa testified:
Q. And is it fair to say that. . .the folks on your side of the schism wanted to do everything they could to interdict these weapons so they wouldnt get any farther down the street than they have to?
A. Yes, sir. We were all sick to death when we realized that when we realized what was going on or when we saw what was going on by the trends. We were all just, yes, we were all distraught.
The rift widened when the Assistant Special Agent in Charge (ASAC) authoritatively and unambiguously told Group VII that guns were not being walked, that the special agents were incorrect in their terminology, and that there would be no more discussion or dissension about this topic. Agent Dodson testified:
A. Then we get an e-mail that . . . there is going to be a meeting. [the ASAC] is coming down, [the ASAC] comes into the Group 7 office and tells us essentially we better stand down with our complaints, that we didnt know what the definition of walking guns was, we werent familiar with the Phoenix way of doing things, that all of this was sanctioned and we just needed to essentially shut up and get in line. Thats not a quote, but thats the feel of the meeting, so . . .
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