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Democracy or Republic? What Difference Does It Make?
Coach is Right ^ | 9/11/15 | Karen Lees & Bill Norton

Posted on 09/11/2015 8:09:10 AM PDT by Oldpuppymax

We learned it in school. America is a democracy, right? It’s stated as a fact in third grade social studies textbooks. Politicians give speeches about our great democracy. We hear it on TV, radio, in political debates, and from the White House. We even aspire to spread democracy around the world.

But is it true? Is our form of government a democracy? Say the pledge of allegiance. “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic…” There’s that pesky word Republic. How did that word get in there?

Democracy or republic – what’s the difference? The two words mean the same thing, right? No. There’s a big difference between a democracy and a republic. The framers of our U.S. Constitution knew the difference very well.

Benjamin Franklin said, “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.”

As James Madison stated, “Democracies are…as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.” Or John Adams, “Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.”

Throughout history, democracies have never lasted long. Once the people learned they could vote themselves money from the public treasury – or from their neighbor’s pocketbook – democracies ultimately created their own demise by establishing an incentive for the people to divide against one another.

Does this sound familiar? We find ourselves in America today, on the road to mass democracy. This was not the founder’s original...

(Excerpt) Read more at coachisright.com ...


TOPICS: Government; History; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: benfranklin; constitution; jamesmadison

1 posted on 09/11/2015 8:09:10 AM PDT by Oldpuppymax
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To: Oldpuppymax

We are a constitutional republic, not a democracy.

But the lie is repeated so often, that we are a democracy, that people believe we are a democracy.


2 posted on 09/11/2015 8:10:17 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: Oldpuppymax

Democrat or Republican?


3 posted on 09/11/2015 8:10:57 AM PDT by Paladin2 (Ive given up on aphostrophys and spell chek on my current devices...one uses Brit spel now.)
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To: Oldpuppymax
I thought Mel Gibson summed up the difference quite well in the movie "The Patriot":

"Why would I want to trade one dictator two thousand miles away for two thousand dictators one mile away?

4 posted on 09/11/2015 8:12:00 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: Oldpuppymax
"Democracy" used to be the political equivalent of a dirty word, like "tyranny."

But giving people the illusion they have control is facilitated through use of the word.

See too, the non-existent "right to vote." Universal suffrage is as problematic in practice, as democracy is. Both are paths to despotism of one sort or another. And here we are.

5 posted on 09/11/2015 8:14:19 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

Democracy - Two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner.


6 posted on 09/11/2015 8:15:07 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Oldpuppymax

Wrote a short book delineating the two!

http://www.amazon.com/This-Republic-Illuminating-Republican-Government/dp/0991117506/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1441984789&sr=8-2


7 posted on 09/11/2015 8:18:17 AM PDT by cotton1706
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To: Oldpuppymax

Truth is free market capitalism is not compatible with popular mass democracy. Our Founding Fathers understood this. That’s why they set up a limited government constitutional republic. At the beginning of our republic, only property owners could vote in federal elections. I now see the wisdom of that model.


8 posted on 09/11/2015 8:20:52 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Wisdom yes indeed.


9 posted on 09/11/2015 8:42:07 AM PDT by Romans Nine
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To: dfwgator
Democracy - Two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner.

I recently spoke in front of our County Commission. I opened with that line, and followed with:

"Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the vote. I'm proud to be a well armed sheep here to protest this vote."

10 posted on 09/11/2015 9:07:13 AM PDT by dware (Trump/Cruz 2016, or get ready for 8 more dummycrat years)
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To: Oldpuppymax
What if we had an answer on the "democracy/republic" question from an original source who actually lived through the Revolutionary Period? What if that source also provided the Framers' rationale for the underlying principle and the reason for Benjamin Franklin's purported response to the question?

John Adams' son, John Quincy, was 9 when the Declaration of Independence was written, 20 when the Constitution was framed, and from his teen years, served in various capacities in both the Legislative and Executive branches of the government, including as President. His words on this subject should be instructive on the subject at hand.

In 1839, JQA was invited by the New York Historical Society to deliver the "Jubilee" Address honoring the 50th Anniversary of the Inauguration of George Washington. He delivered that lengthy discourse which should be read by all who love liberty, for it traced the history of the development of the ideas underlying and the actions leading to the establishment of the Constitution which structured the United States government. His 50th-year summation seems to be a better source for understanding the kind of government the Founders formed than those of recent historians and politicians. He addresses the ideas of "democracy" and "republic" throughout, but here are some of his concluding remarks:

"Every change of a President of the United States, has exhibited some variety of policy from that of his predecessor. In more than one case, the change has extended to political and even to moral principle; but the policy of the country has been fashioned far more by the influences of public opinion, and the prevailing humors in the two Houses of Congress, than by the judgment, the will, or the principles of the President of the United States. The President himself is no more than a representative of public opinion at the time of his election; and as public opinion is subject to great and frequent fluctuations, he must accommodate his policy to them; or the people will speedily give him a successor; or either House of Congress will effectually control his power. It is thus, and in no other sense that the Constitution of the United States is democratic - for the government of our country, instead of a Democracy the most simple, is the most complicated government on the face of the globe. From the immense extent of our territory, the difference of manners, habits, opinions, and above all, the clashing interests of the North, South, East, and West, public opinion formed by the combination of numerous aggregates, becomes itself a problem of compound arithmetic, which nothing but the result of the popular elections can solve.

"It has been my purpose, Fellow-Citizens, in this discourse to show:-

"1. That this Union was formed by a spontaneous movement of the people of thirteen English Colonies; all subjects of the King of Great Britain - bound to him in allegiance, and to the British empire as their country. That the first object of this Union,was united resistance against oppression, and to obtain from the government of their country redress of their wrongs.

"2. That failing in this object, their petitions having been spurned, and the oppressions of which they complained, aggravated beyond endurance, their Delegates in Congress, in their name and by their authority, issued the Declaration of Independence - proclaiming them to the world as one people, absolving them from their ties and oaths of allegiance to their king and country - renouncing that country; declared the UNITED Colonies, Independent States, and announcing that this ONE PEOPLE of thirteen united independent states, by that act, assumed among the powers of the earth, that separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitled them.

"3. That in justification of themselves for this act of transcendent power, they proclaimed the principles upon which they held all lawful government upon earth to be founded - which principles were, the natural, unalienable, imprescriptible rights of man, specifying among them, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - that the institution of government is to secure to men in society the possession of those rights: that the institution, dissolution, and reinstitution of government, belong exclusively to THE PEOPLE under a moral responsibility to the Supreme Ruler of the universe; and that all the just powers of government are derived from the consent of the governed.

"4. That under this proclamation of principles, the dissolution of allegiance to the British king, and the compatriot connection with the people of the British empire, were accomplished; and the one people of the United States of America, became one separate sovereign independent power, assuming an equal station among the nations of the earth.

"5. That this one people did not immediately institute a government for themselves. But instead of it, their delegates in Congress, by authority from their separate state legislatures, without voice or consultation of the people, instituted a mere confederacy.

"6. That this confederacy totally departed from the principles of the Declaration of independence, and substituted instead of the constituent power of the people, an assumed sovereignty of each separate state, as the source of all its authority.

"7. That as a primitive source of power, this separate state sovereignty,was not only a departure from the principles of the Declaration of Independence, but directly contrary to, and utterly incompatible with them.

"8. That the tree was made known by its fruits. That after five years wasted in its preparation, the confederation dragged out a miserable existence of eight years more, and expired like a candle in the socket, having brought the union itself to the verge of dissolution.

"9. That the Constitution of the United States was a return to the principles of the Declaration of independence, and the exclusive constituent power of the people. That it was the work of the ONE PEOPLE of the United States; and that those United States, though doubled in numbers, still constitute as a nation, but ONE PEOPLE.

"10. That this Constitution, making due allowance for the imperfections and errors incident to all human affairs, has under all the vicissitudes and changes of war and peace, been administered upon those same principles, during a career of fifty years.

"11. That its fruits have been, still making allowance for human imperfection, a more perfect union, established justice, domestic tranquility, provision for the common defence, promotion of the general welfare, and the enjoyment of the blessings of liberty by the constituent people, and their posterity to the present day.

"And now the future is all before us, and Providence our guide."

In an earlier paragraph, he had stated:
"But this institution was republican, and even democratic. And here not to be misunderstood, I mean by democratic, a government, the administration of which must always be rendered comfortable to that predominating public opinion . . . and by republican I mean a government reposing, not upon the virtues or the powers of any one man - not upon that honor, which Montesquieu lays down as the fundamental principle of monarchy - far less upon that fear which he pronounces the basis of despotism; but upon that virtue which he, a noble of aristocratic peerage, and the subject of an absolute monarch, boldly proclaims as a fundamental principle of republican government. The Constitution of the United States was republican and democratic - but the experience of all former ages had shown that of all human governments, democracy was the most unstable, fluctuating and short-lived; and it was obvious that if virtue - the virtue of the people, was the foundation of republican government, the stability and duration of the government must depend upon the stability and duration of the virtue by which it is sustained."


11 posted on 09/11/2015 9:19:52 AM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: Oldpuppymax

We have always been a Republic but in effect we became a Democracy, how did this happen, we the people went to sleep, while the communists slowly surely took control, they now have total control the effects are all too evident, the primary effect we suffer now is tyranny, we have the Constitutional authority to DEPOSE the current tyrannical government yet we do nothing.

We have surrendered our Republic to the Progressive Liberal Democrat/Rino Communist Uni-Party, now we suppose an election cycle will resolve are problems, the same election process the progressive communist uni-party spent decades corrupting for just such a time as this, the commies have thoroughly imbedded themselves; they are not going to allow such an election process to take away their reigns of power, they will stop at nothing to maintain their control, we think Americans are waking up; yet we need look no further than 9-11 to see when the alarm clock goes on it is all to easy to shut it off, roll over, go back to sleep and forget about it.

Yes this is what democracy looks like, a slow suicide, death by a thousand cuts on the once greatest truly free republic to ever exist; we the people have failed to keep our republic, we have shed blood around the world to protect others from tyranny while tyrants prevail in our own land.

Freepers and other varied scattered conservative forums understand what’s happening but in the grand scheme of things we are ultimately very few.


12 posted on 09/11/2015 9:30:26 AM PDT by PoloSec ( Believe the Gospel: how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again)
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To: Oldpuppymax
The two words are actually synonyms and historically have referred to societies ruled by other than single individuals or royal lines or heritable elites. For precision adjectives must be used with the terms like "representative republic" or "popular democracy." In classic American use our Republic is a representative Democracy with a large, not necessarily universal, voting franchise to elect representatives to a legislature and any country with a large voting franchise is a democracy.
13 posted on 09/11/2015 9:41:26 AM PDT by arthurus (It's true.)
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To: Oldpuppymax

bkmk


14 posted on 09/11/2015 10:11:28 AM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: Dilbert San Diego; PoloSec
We are a constitutional republic, not a democracy.

We are a de jure democratic republic; we have de facto tyranny.

Our once free institutions serve to give the patina of legitimacy to despotism. There is little practical difference between the senate of the Roman emperors and the congress under Obama.

15 posted on 09/11/2015 2:01:02 PM PDT by Jacquerie ( To shun Article V is to embrace tyranny.)
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