Oklahoma Repeals Knife ban that Balimore Police used to Arrest Freddy Grey

Gun Watch ^ | 2 May, 2015 | Dean Weingarten

[marktwain]

Oklahoma has repealed their version of the switchblade knife ban.   Baltimore has a similar law that Freddy Grey was arrested under before his death from a serious spinal cord injury, three fractured vertebrae, and a crushed voice box, apparently while in police custody.   The Baltimore law is more vague than the Oklahoma law HB 1911(pdf) , and the AG in Baltimore has ruled that the arrest was illegal, probably for two reasons.

First, the knife was not concealed. The officer noted that he saw the knife clipped to the front pants pocket. Second, the knife was not a "switchblade", even under the vague Baltimore law, if anyone had been required to prove the case in court. From kniferights.org:

Maryland does not have knife law preemption, so municipalities such as Baltimore are allowed to fabricate laws more restrictive than the state itself. Baltimore's city code prohibits the sale, carry or possession of "any knife with an automatic spring or other device for opening and/or closing the blade, commonly known as a switch-blade knife." While it might be possible in theory to interpret that unusual definition of "switch-blade" to include assisted-opening knives, such an interpretation would conflict with virtually all other switchblade definitions throughout the country.

 These vague and irrational knife laws, just as most concealed carry laws, were passed precisely to give the police authority to  arrest those who the police considered undesirable, mostly blacks, recent immigrants, or anyone out of favor with the local elites.  When you read the debates about these laws, you often read of police saying that they need the law as a "law enforcement tool".   

A commenter on the excellent blog Weaponsman  reports that the knives are common in the city and sold in large numbers of retail outlets.  From Weaponsman commenter Sir Lord Baltimore:

I can relate that the style of knife Mr. Grey had on his person was/is in common currency throughout the entire city. Pretty much every male I knew carried one. Black, white, working-class, or poor. Heck, you could find cheap versions at many ghetto corner stores. The one extant surplus store in town (A great place H and H 425 Eutaw Street) sells better quality ones over the counter.

I never left home without a knife. It was Baltimore for the love of Pete. I always had a “switchblade” handy. Never got messed with by the police for it either. I dealt with the police often enough…I was employed as a drink slinger for a number of years. Also did work for various property management companies in places like ever glamorous West Baltimore. Never a peep outta the cops once.

Frankly, the place where young Freddy was picked up was a place that I wouldn’t want to be without a weapon of some sort (a knife is a paltry thing). The police likely needed to have something to charge Freddie with.

In a number of states, education on the stupidity and futility of the knife bans has resulted in repeal of the bans.    There is even an ongoing campaign in New York to modify the knife law because of the startling number of abusive arrests enabled by the law.   It has become a strong moneymaker for the DA in New York City.

At last count, Oklahoma makes the ninth state to repeal this irrational law.  Maine was number eight, only a few days ago.  Given Maryland's attitude toward the Constitution and freedom, they seem unlikely to be number ten.  

  It is interesting to note that all of the old media seem to follow the AP lead in declaring that the legislation "legalizes" switchblades.  It shows a basic difference in the assumptions about reality.  Switchblades were not banned until the 1950's.   Then a spate of media driven frenzy lead to a slew of trendy switchblade bans across the country.   Now, as new media educates people to the irrationality of those bans, they are being repealed.    To say that they are being  "legalized" implies that the default presumption is to be illegal; that the state tells us what is "allowed".

This is the opposite of the foundational philosophy of the American legal system.  Here, everything is allowed unless it is forbidden.   It is a profound and important difference.   Under Oklahoma law, it is still illegal to carry on their person "any dagger, bowie knife, dirk knife,". 


©2015 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included. Link to Gun Watch

[ilovesarah2012]

Box cutters must be legal.

[hadaclueonce]

Kind of sad that a Bowie Knife is not legal in Texas.

[marktwain]

It is very sad. Before the Civil war, the Texas Supreme Court ruled that even slaves had a right to carry Bowie knives in Texas.

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-slaves-friend-bowie-knife-pamphlet.html

[manc]

There were a couple on here earlier saying the knife was not illegal therefore the search was illegal. Now this report states they are illegal.

this is why everyone should not rush to judgment.

[marktwain]

If you are referring to this posting, it shows that the knife was not illegal and it was not concealed.

What article are you referring to that shows that the knife was illegal?

The knife law in Balitmore, as in many places, is used as a police tool to arrest people that they want to arrest, but cannot find a good reason to do so.

[Vendome]

I carry knives that look and operate just like that.

That is not a switchblade under any definition.

But, I sure wouldn’t want my back broken to fit someone’s idea of what is...

[Vendome]

In fact, I have a Freeper friend, who I gave a similar knife but, way superior to Fugly looking thing....

[familyop]

Except that the police did not use any knife ban to arrest Gray. They lied, claiming that he had a switchblade. The City State’s Attorney said today that the knife on Gray is legal.

[MaxMax]

To say that they are being "legalized" implies that the default presumption
is to be illegal; that the state tells us what is "allowed".

Well said and worth repeating.

[marktwain]

Exactly. But they thought they could get away with it because the existing law is impreciss. I would place a lot of money that in the last five years, dozens of arrests have been made under the law, and they are mostly invalid.

What usually happens, is after the person arrested is placed in jail for a few days or weeks, (because they do not have money for a bail bondman), or gets bailed out, they cop a plea to avoid trial.

If they can afford and attorney who challenges the charges, the charges may be dropped.

You got a different outcome in this case because of the tragic result and the publicity. Where was this DA in previous knife cases? I guess she is pretty new.

[goat granny]

back in the 50’s switchblade knives were illegal, they always were as far as I know....

[familyop]

Officers Charged In Freddie Gray’s Death, State’s Attorney Said Arrest Was Illegal [Knife Was Legal]
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3285340/posts

[Boogieman]

No, not always, they were pretty much banned only in the 50s due to fear of “juvenile delinquents”, inspired by all the pulp fiction and hysterical B movies that featured them.

[marktwain]

“back in the 50’s switchblade knives were illegal, they always were as far as I know....”

That is when they were made illegal.

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2015/02/how-switchblades-were-banned.html

[OK Sun]

When I first heard the law was finally going to pass I went over to the local gun store to look at their selections. They had about a dozen of different kinds, some of them very nice. None like the one I had when I was a kid, though--back when they were legal--and kids could buy and carry knives.

Law takes effect on November 1, if I recall correctly.

[marktwain]

Yes, November 1, as I recall. The various switchblade bans were almost a test run for the media to see if they could enact stupid laws through hysteria.

They have enacted a lot more since then.

[marktwain]

I have seen knive sheaths or cases that open the knife for you as it is drawn.

Do you recall any? Seemed like a legal workaround to me.

[familyop]

"Exactly. But they thought they could get away with it because the existing law is impreciss. I would place a lot of money that in the last five years, dozens of arrests have been made under the law, and they are mostly invalid.

What usually happens, is after the person arrested is placed in jail for a few days or weeks, (because they do not have money for a bail bondman), or gets bailed out, they cop a plea to avoid trial.

If they can afford and attorney who challenges the charges, the charges may be dropped.

You got a different outcome in this case because of the tragic result and the publicity. Where was this DA in previous knife cases? I guess she is pretty new."

You made good and true points there. And yes, the accusation about switchblades to raise suspicion has become one of several canards.

A switchblade is not a knob-bladed lock blade, though. Tourists in the past bought switchblades from foreign countries like Mexico (been there when some Mexican towns still looked like the Old West, seen switchblade vendors and switchblades).

The common switchblade had a spring in it and flicked open with the push or slide of a button on the side of the handle. They were too fragile to be useful for fighting, IMO (too easily forced to close). Some of the few bad police have been using material from novels or old stories about Mexican gangs to come up with the accusation.

A pair of butterfly knives is much more useful for fighting, as are other kinds of knives originally made for fighting. But none of them should be outlawed for people in the U.S.A. to carry, except for individuals who are too incompetent to walk around by themselves (severely retarded, psychotic, fugitive murderers or the like).

[Covenantor]

Heck, I recall Italian switch blade stilettos advertised in the back sections of Popular Mechanics and Popular Science among other magazines.

My dad told me not to bother as they were “pieces of crap”.

BTW, I carried a pocket knife from third grand on, in DC.