They are completely ignoring what the doctors tell them. My dad ignores them because he no longer has the capability to remember beyond a few minutes what is said. My mom, we just aren't sure where she is at; if she doesn't like what is said she denies it was said or says she doesn't remember. It's hard to know with her because she always been like that. Even her new doctor said she was "particularly difficult."
Dad has been told by 2 different doctors not to drive & mostly he's ok with that. But if my mom wants something or to go somewhere she instigates him wanting to drive. They currently don't have their car, but want to back. My mom is going blind, but insists she can drive.
Anyway, it goes on and on. We are meeting with an Elderly Care attorney tomorrow to see if guardianship is an option.
All advise/suggestions are appreciated.
You might check into being their power of attorney for starters.
You have my prayers. We are dealing with a similar set of issues for my wife’s parents, although they remain in their home with a full time care giver.
It is very hard to deal with. I’m sorry I don’t have real advice to share, but I hope to read some on this thread.
God Bless you and your family.
The best advice I have from experience, is lots of time in Prayer. Everyday the scenario will change. The Lord was my Wisdom and my strength.
Have you thought of having them come live with you?
Just went through with my mother I am now stuck with being the executor without benefit of all the info I would have had had I done this earlier. Go for it and just try to explain that you are taking care of them and that it is for the best. They will not remember but at least the family will know they are well cared for.
The STUBBORNNESS of the elderly makes this situation extremely difficult. They don’t want to lose their freedom (driving, etc.,) and that is the hardest part to overcome.
Get POA, Guardianship, etc. right away, even if it makes you unpopular for a while. There are many sharks that will steal from the elderly.
First of all - do they have wills and medical proxies already in place? I hope so. This is first and foremost important. Are both up to date? Is the executor / medical proxie you or someone you trust?
Also, do you have Power of Attorney for them? You may need specific POA’s done with their bank or other financial institutions to be able to view their records or help them with their finances.
My elderly father, unknown to us, was buying gold from some bucket shop, which had been calling him on the telephone. Gold is OK as an investment, but we found he grossly overpaid for this product, that was only 14K and difficult to re-sell. They were simply preying on his advanced age. We only learned about it after my brother was able to get POA and view his accounts.
Gentle persuasion and constant reminder of your previous plans and discussions are the only way I know to move things forward.
1. Pray.
If you can get them to sign it you need 2 poa’s. A regular one and a medical poa. Good luck. I couldn’t get my mom to sign one and boy did we pay for it. She was very difficult. Eventually she wound up in the hospital and we talked the doctor into not releasing her except to a rehab facility. The people there and hospice who we used for skin care talked the main doctor there into declaring her incompetent so we could finally start making decisions. Til that point she made all the decisions, always wrong, and I had to come along and clean up the messes she made.
It’s never easy. Good luck.
Get a family law type attorney.
When ya have family members not capable of making common sense decisions, and they can endanger themselves and others, not to mention making reckless decisions with assets, it’s time to help them out and take control for their own good.
Not a happy pleasant thing to do, but the consequences of doing nothing can get extremely ugly.
BTW, just remember, there are hordes of people out there who wear nice suits, just waiting to take advantage of them, and loot what they have. No joke. It’s why predator lending laws, power of attorney laws were enacted, etc.
You also need “Medical” power of attorney.
I had two Aunts with this problem...one thing we learned is not to fight them...rather go along with them in what ever state of mind they are at the moment. Then make the necessary arrangements you must.
An example....When my Aunt wanted to pick flowers off the headboard...my Uncle asked to pick them with her....then said he was tired could they pick flowers later. She agreed and both slept the night away.
You have to somehow get into the world they’re in at the moment....and steer them in another direction. Reasoning seldom works as they can’t remember well enough or long enough to have that dialogue. And all must be done in love.
It’s a hard road and one that will require outside help other and in addition to family....and this with those who are experienced care givers familiar with this disease.
Both Aunts knew what they were contending with so trust is a major issue among family members. It was frustrating for them as they recognized they were loosing the ability to recall.
Sometimes my one Aunt insisted she keep her underclothes on for her bath...so they did it her way. Making small adjustments matter no matter how e silly or non-conventional it might seem to us.
Agreeing with them , even if you know otherwise. If they hate something say you do to...but then guide them to something else.
There are moments you might think they’re fighting you, when in fact you’re seeing much of the frustration they are contending with within themselves. No matter how things go...it’s far more difficult for them then for us.
Talk to an attorney about a guardianship. It means you make all decisions for them including filing their taxes. We had to do this for my wife’s aunt. Do it now, don’t wait.
Yea it is really tough.. I had to hire an attorney take it to court where they the court hired a Guardian ad Litem who interviewed my father reported to the court and I was granted Guardianship!!!
Have gone through this TWICE with my MIL.
Wife put down a $4k deposit on a very nice home with a “memory unit” about two years ago and her brother - who lives conveniently just far enough away NOT to see the squalor and level of degradation to which his mother has sunk - stepped in, hired an “elder lawyer” for a hearing, MIL showed up (driven by him) wife went up to NJ for the hearing and the case was settled in favor of the MIL and my BIL. Wife to have medical power of attorney, BIL to have financial POA (of course - estate’s worth several millions).
So, a year later, we’re getting calls all hours of the day and night. Sometimes five or ten in an evening. MIL is losing memory faster, more disorganized, never leaves apartment - old friends have spoke with my wife about it - she calls out for fast food delivery, BIL pays bills, nice life.
Went up last spring after wife had had enough, spoke with “home” again, made deposits, spoke with her mom, we’re coming up to bring you down for the weekend, haven’t seen kids in a year or more, yadda yadda, MIL agrees to all this, meanwhile plan is to get her to the care facility so she can be evaluated by a DOCTOR, not an elder law administrative judge and attorneys.
Drove up and - per my wife - MIL is wearing same, torn schmata (house robe) she was two years ago but with more stains/tears, disorganized, two cans of soup in cupboard (despite my wife’s having local grocer deliver food once or twice a week - now we have to find out if that ever arrived at all, MIL doesn’t recall anyone coming to the door with groceries but says “I have food” said two cans of soup, and refrigerator, cabinets AND oven are FULL, packed FULL of takeout containers), she wouldn’t go. didn’t recall conversation from the night before or that morning. Three hours up, two hours arguing, she wouldn’t budge.
Three hours back. 8PM Saturday night we pull into the drive, walk inside, MIL calls from NJ “I thought you were coming up this weekend?”
Took 6 weeks to get refund from extended care facility.
BIL now calls to complain “do something about Ma”
F you. That’s all my wife’s had to say to him, other than “YOU deal with her, I did my part.”
MIL still calls some nights as much as ten to twenty times. We disconnect the phone.
We’re waiting to hear from social services or the apartment manager responding to a “bad smell” from the apartment. MIL often wanders the hallways looking for her son who she believes lives in one of the apartments.
First, in the immortal words of the bard “First thing, we kill all the lawyers,” second, do what you can as fast as you can.
GET A Power of Attorney ASAP.
We were fortunate in that I was proactive enough to have my MIL sign off on ALL the 529/UGMA paperwork turning over POA to my wife years ago when the kids started college. Dealing with paying tuition would have been a nightmare if my MIL were still involved. As it was I figured out how to log in and do reallocations before she ever signed everything over - effectively taking charge of the accounts myself - bypassing MUCH grief and wailing and gnashing of teeth.
She won’t sign anything now. Too paranoid. She actually said, as reason NOT to come with us this past spring “I can’t help the feeling that the two of you are here to take me somewhere... somewhere permanent.”
I’ve been practicing medicine for 23 years, dealt a LOT with dementia (alzheimer’s, et. al), but I’ve NEVER come across such paranoia as a diagnostic criterion.
Get it done. RFN (RFQ if you’re south of the Mason Dixon line).
You are taking the first and correct step by seeing a lawyer. Laws very from state to state; but I had to do it some years ago. Not all that complex but the ongoing paperwork is a pain.
My experience with a mother who went through this is be tough as nails about setting up and controlling the finances now, or it can tear relatives apart....forever...later.
Best wishes. Remember that there are no perfect decisions. Make a well thought out decision, follow through with it, and don't second guess youself.
This may be a rehash of what others have said, but here goes:
Depending upon your state, you may also need a Durable Power of Attorney, as well as a regular Power of Attorney. In some places, POA lasts until death, then after death, you need a DPOA to deal with final bills, funeral expenses, to close accounts, etc.
Every state is different as to what you need, and how to go about getting it.
Whatever you do, as many have said, make sure you get the best Elder Care attorney possible. Some lawyers claim to be one, then end up not knowing relevant law.
Also, get to know & get friendly with your parents’ doctors & any other medical personnel. You may need them to have your parents declared incompetent. This may sound calculating, but if you don’t get them declared incompetent, in most places, they can overrule any decisions you may make.
Documentation is important as well. Save everything that’s on paper, take lots of written notes if possible.
We just had a death from Alzheimers in my family, with mental decline for many years before death, and are still dealing with everything, so this is all too fresh to me.
Finally, make sure to take care your yourself. Sleep, eat well, exercise, have a hobby as an outlet if possible, enlist help from others when you can. If you aren’t healthy, you can’t help them. Prayers & best wishes to your family. It’s a tough journey.
Going through that with my Dad now. I live with him and he had long term care insurance that pays for caregivers during the day.
Fortunately he gave me Power of Attorney years ago, and the way it’s set up, he’d have to get a doctor to acknowledge he is competent to reverse it.
I’ve not taken guardianship yet. But I have had to threaten that I would if he didn’t run important decisions by me first. Fortunately his sisters back me 100% and tell him to listen to me.
Early after his stroke, he traded a good car and $2000 cash to a caregiver for a broken down jeep, that wasn’t worth $2000. He ran it by me first, and I was just glad this would satisfy his new car bug. I didn’t check the book values or the condition of the jeep before I said yes. When I did, I realized just how bad his decision making was impaired.
I’ve tried to maintain his independence. I let him pay the bills, but I have caregivers that look and make sure the checks are legible and that the bill makes sense.
He still has two vehicles, even though he hasn’t been able to drive for a few years. The caregivers take him places in one.
He talks about renewing his drivers license every once and a while, and his gun permit, and he wants to know where the guns are. We tell him it’s not expired yet, and that he won’t be able to renew it when it does, He’ll have to get a state ID instead.
One issue I’ve had to deal with is that he wants to
carry too much cash on him. That one is a constant battle.
We’ve had caregivers that have stolen cash. And we have had caregivers that have stolen pain medicines. We keep all but the current week’s supply of pain killers and anti-depressants locked up now. One caregiver stole a voided check, washed it out and wrote it to herself and tried to cash it. Had the check cashing firm she went to cashed it for her, she’d be in prison now. As it was I still had to file my first police report. I think all in all we’ve been pretty lucky with caregivers.
I have had to file copies of the POA with the banks.
The IRS has their own form that he had to sign.
He checked into transferring the house to me a few years back, but an attorney told him he had enough insurance. (bad advice) I worry he will go into a nursing home and we will lose the house. As it is we have had to borrow against the house for medical expenses.
He still has good days where everything seems fine. But some days he thinks that I’m one of his brothers. And other days, he wants to know where the other Danny is. I guess he has an image of me when i was younger.