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FL: Escalation of Force: Citizens Arrest turned Deadly
Gun Watch ^ | 10 November, 2014 | Dean Weingarten

Posted on 11/11/2014 7:07:10 AM PST by marktwain

Lawley

In most states, the legislators and courts have ruled that defense of property is not sufficient justification, by itself, for the use of deadly force.

This does not mean that you have to allow criminals to steal your property at will.   It means that you may not immediately use deadly force to prevent a theft, though there are exceptions.   Texas, for example, allows the use of deadly force to prevent theft on one's property at night.

The way that deadly force is legally employed in the protection of property is indirect, allowed for with an escalation of force.   Here are the steps that are likely to be taken: 

A person determines that someone is stealing their property.   They are allowed to use physical force to stop the theft.

They attempt to stop the theft, and the thief uses or threatens to use physical force against them as the thief resists.

If the force or threatened force used against the person who is attempting to stop the theft is reasonably viewed as a threat to life or bodily integrity, deadly force may be used to stop the threat. 

In Florida there was a recent example of escalation of force in defense of property.  From news4jax.com:
Warth said he grabbed his gun and confronted Lawley (pictured below from 2009 arrest), then tried to make a "citizen's arrest" in the street as Lawley was trying to walk away.
You may use physical force to stop someone from stealing from you.
Warth said he grabbed Lawley's backpack, and the confrontation turned violent in the street when Lawley took a swing at him, according to the documents. Prosecutors said Warth "believed that Lawley may have been going for Warth's gun."

Warth fired a single shot, striking Lawley in the mouth, killing him.
The crucial point above is that the thief escalated from mere theft, to potential deadly force.   If you are visibly armed, and someone physically attacks you, it is reasonable to assume that they will attempt to disarm you.   That escalates the attack beyond mere physical force to deadly force; you may use deadly force to defend against deadly force.
 "This ruling favors stand your ground when you have the State Attorney's Office saying that you don't necessarily have to be in your home, you can be affecting a citizen's arrest down the street and still obviously use deadly force to defend yourself when you believe deadly force is coming against you," Peoples-Waters said.
Some people say that "mere" property is not worth a deadly confrontation.  I believe it is more complicated than that simple statement.   People invest part of their life into their property.   It represents an investment of time that is an integral part of their life.   Things that are of small value may not be worth much risk, but they add up.   If enough small things are taken, they become a big thing.  Become known as an easy mark, and all of your property may start walking away.

Some people put their entire life savings into a small business.   To have it ruined by many small thefts amounts to the taking of a large part of their life.

If no one resists, thieves are taught a lesson.   They learn that they are rewarded when  they steal, with the result that many other people may be victimized by the career thief.
 Lawley had a long history of arrests in Clay County, including for burglary, aggravated battery, car theft and DUI.
Every situation must be evaluated on the individual circumstances.

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on the Internets, and the laws, as mentioned, vary a bit from state to state.


©2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch


TOPICS: Government; History; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: banglist; escalation; fl; justification
Property is essential to life.
1 posted on 11/11/2014 7:07:10 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain
Property is essential to life.

Which is why the statist wants to make your possession of it dependent upon their own will.

2 posted on 11/11/2014 7:09:44 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: marktwain

Racial components to the situation come into play. White shoots white, it’s alright. Black shoots black, don’t look back. White shoots black, the peeps attack.


3 posted on 11/11/2014 7:11:12 AM PST by blackdog (There is no such thing as healing, only a balance between destructive and constructive forces.)
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To: marktwain

Property IS your life. The time you worked to pay for that property can never be recovered.


4 posted on 11/11/2014 7:12:14 AM PST by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: marktwain

If you are in an environment where theft is infrequent and minor, then you can afford to not use force.

If you are in an environment where theft has a major impact on your way of life, it can be a different story.


5 posted on 11/11/2014 7:12:40 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: marktwain
In most states, the legislators and courts have ruled that defense of property is not sufficient justification, by itself, for the use of deadly force.

IOW, in most states, the legislators and courts are traitors to the United States of America.

6 posted on 11/11/2014 7:19:00 AM PST by Carl Vehse
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To: marktwain
Ultimately property rights and personal rights are the same thing. -Calvin Coolidge
7 posted on 11/11/2014 7:19:55 AM PST by cripplecreek (You can't half ass conservatism.)
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To: marktwain

Legal arguments aside, that was one hell of a shot in a stressful situation.


8 posted on 11/11/2014 7:23:52 AM PST by Dacus943
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To: PapaBear3625

Problem is in certain cases what would be viewed as a minor theft, say stealing a few dollars of copper wire, can end up costing you 10s of thousands of dollars in damage because your equipment quit running.


9 posted on 11/11/2014 8:00:10 AM PST by IMR 4350
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To: marktwain

***Some people say that “mere” property is not worth a deadly confrontation.***

Wonder what would happen if I went up to an armored truck or bank and grabbed a stash of cash! Could I walk away with it?


10 posted on 11/11/2014 8:13:47 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Dacus943
The shooter displayed exemplary gun control... drilled the defective stinkfish right in the mouth! LOL!

Nice shootin, pardner.

11 posted on 11/11/2014 9:09:24 AM PST by Gargantua ("...Fee tine a mady..." ;^)
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To: marktwain
Some people say that "mere" property is not worth a deadly confrontation. I believe it is more complicated than that simple statement. People invest part of their life into their property. It represents an investment of time that is an integral part of their life. Things that are of small value may not be worth much risk, but they add up. If enough small things are taken, they become a big thing. Become known as an easy mark, and all of your property may start walking away.

This is an essential concept that many just simply do not understand. This is especially true when one considers taxation. When the government demands that I give them money, what they are really saying is that they have a claim to a percentage of my very life, for it is through my own precious time, given freely in exchange for compensation, that I earn the money the government demands of me. They have enslaved me for their own purposes. Time is the only thing we all come into the world with, and it is not for us to know the amount allotted to us by God. If people thought of taxation as being a drain of their very life's blood, perhaps they'd be less willing to submit to it so willingly.

12 posted on 11/11/2014 10:04:17 AM PST by zeugma (The act of observing disturbs the observed.)
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To: marktwain

Lawley found out there can be serious problems when you try to bite the bullet. You have to be quick, real quick!


13 posted on 11/11/2014 10:21:39 AM PST by B4Ranch ( Refuse to live in fear of life or death.)
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