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To: MarDav

WE have had more than 2000 years of numerous religions therefor by logic they must all be correct because they survived for so long.

BAD LOGIC. LAZY THINKING.

You came to believe what you believe because that is how you were brought up. Muslims believe what they believe because that is how they were brought up.

Therefor - you BOTH must be right.

I worked with archeologists in the middle east and I uncovered MANY empty tombs. Tombs were only a place to store a body until it desiccated and then the bones were cleaned and put in a carved stone box and sometime kept in the house and sometime buried.

YOU were not there and you rely upon people 2000 years to provide accurate details and for those details to remain consistent all this time.

History proves that time ALWAYS changes how facts are interpreted and reported and can not be relied upon.

We can’t even keep our own prejudices and biases inline about things that happened as recently as 20 years so how can an undocumented document be relied on after 2000 years.

NONE of the manuscripts exist from that time because 99.9% of the people were not literate and all facts were passed from one person to another for thousands of generations and you expect accuracy just because it is said to be the word of God?

God did not write the Bible ,,,,, man did. Man is extremely fallible. If God had written it down and I could see the original document then and only then would I accept what you believe to be true.


60 posted on 04/02/2013 8:58:27 PM PDT by jongaltsr
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To: jongaltsr; MarDav

On top of all jongaltsr has said the bible was written by men that had an agenda to advance a certain belief. Think of that in the context of how those that have a agenda today distort recent history in order to advance their agenda.

I will take what I believe about the Creator comes from the one source that cannot be faked and he has written himself and that is Nature. And I will keep an open mind to adjust my beliefs as we learn more details of what he has written.

Of course my belief relies on a certain amount of faith, but I know that that faith is based on the truth.

I do support the right of others to believe what ever they want as long as it doesn’t harm others.


61 posted on 04/03/2013 3:06:07 AM PDT by Okieshooter
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To: jongaltsr

I had intended on positing a more lengthy response to your last post which was full of error both in terms of characterizing what I was saying and in your understanding of Biblical authorship. You have been unwilling to respond directly to any evidences I have previously offered. What should change now? You are simply satisfied in your current state of mind (you call it openness), are willing to make accusations that you cannot/will not defend and then posit one more shallow argument before running out of the room to here/consider any response. And rather than discuss the totality of my response to you, you’ve cherry-picked a single statement and turned this into a new area for discussion. No mention of the Piso family. No defense of their questionable character/nature. You mention many empty tombs and...what can I say. Yes, you’re right. There were/are many empty tombs all over the place. Probably not just in the Middle East. But Christ’s was empty on the third day. The grave clothes were still inside. The body was not. And then the “body” that was supposed to be dead and buried starts walking around and talking to people and eating with people and takes a band of shaken-to-the-core followers who are hiding for their lives and offers them such hope that they are now out in the streets preaching His gospel. One of these, who boasted how he would die rather than deny Him, suffers such a monumental failure of loyalty (having denied Him 3 times, exactly the way he was told he would), is now ready to risk life and limb to preach the Gospel. Gets sent to jail, gets beaten, is crucified upside down for it. Who would do this for a hoax? Who would do this for some agenda? Who would do this because he thought he might stand to gain some power or position? This, too, is evidence for THE empty tomb (which I believe you knew we were talking about, but you would not stand THERE to consider THAT empty tomb. Peter preached to those who were alive and saw Christ crucified (heck, some of those there were the ones who HAD Him crucified!) Where was the counter-argument as he preached? Where was the counter-manuscript to challenge this? Your dates about scripture authorship take the later, but not agreed to dates (and some you cite are simply inaccurate—2nd century?) Most historians believe most of the books of the New Testament to have been written by 70 AD. Luke was likely written by 50 A.D. which would mean that there was an audience of quite a few people who were alive at the time of the events he was recording. You use some idea about writing and reading being illegal and punishable, as if that settled if for folks, “We’re just not going to read and write.” No. Even in Communist China, where it is illegal to have a church, there are churches. But, look at me. I said I wasn’t going to post long and here I am, attempting to persuade, convince, refute...

Therefore, I will stop. I will consider my work done here. We have left an electronic trail for all time of how each of us stands on this issue. We have We can both walk away knowing we have stuck to our guns, defended our positions (you, somewhat less so, in my view) and can go and tell others how we have “run the course, finished the race, kept our faiths.”


62 posted on 04/03/2013 5:09:09 AM PDT by MarDav
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