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How gay rights tipped so quickly
Yahoo! News / The Week ^ | March 26, 2013 | Marc Ambinder

Posted on 03/26/2013 9:03:19 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

In some ways, today's Supreme Court arguments over California's proposition 8 were overshadowed by the decision of several Democratic senators from red or purple states to openly and active support marriage equality. Actually, even that pales in comparison to Richard Land, the key Southern Baptist political evangelist, who just said, basically, "nevermind," when it comes to the next generation of evangelicals being uncomfortable about gay rights. (To be sure, he still opposes gay rights, still thinks that gay marriage will lead to polygamy, and believes that anti-gay leaders are being ostracized from polite society.) On that last part, he's kind of correct. The zone of tolerance for acceptable viewpoints has narrowed very quickly.

Why has the structure of the gay rights debate shifted so quickly? The Week's Peter Weber has found six reasons. I have some guesses, a few obvious ones, and a few not-so-obvious, and I'm going to try to put them in order of importance.

First: Harvey Milk had it right. All politics is personal. Self-identified gays make up about 3 and a half percent of the population. That means that almost everyone with a social life in America knows someone who is gay. In fact, nearly 60 percent of Americans surveyed say that someone close to them is gay. (Sarah Palin's best friend is gay.) Of those who've changed their minds on the issue, the plurality say that they simply expanded their circle of empathy because their circle came include gay people.

But here's the important point: in order for this to happen, gay people had to take risks and come out. So: the pressure within the gay community to stigmatize "the closet," a pressure that can be pretty intense at times, has paid off........

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Religion; Society; TV/Movies
KEYWORDS: barf; gaymarriage; homosexualagenda; homosexualmarriage; kenmehlman; logcabingop; obama; palin; proposition8; samesexmarriage; scotus; ssm; supremecourt
Comments?
1 posted on 03/26/2013 9:03:19 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I don’t think I have ever see such a drastic sea change on a social issue in my lifetime. Their most effective strategy has been to have otherwise conservative or “macho” men come out in favor of Gay Marriage.

Clint Eastwood, NFL players, NHL players etc.


2 posted on 03/26/2013 9:13:50 PM PDT by OKRA2012
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The media’s advertisers love them. So the media does too.
Their rightfully low self-esteem makes them easily manipulated and fiecely loyal. And they have disposable income.

Perverts are the media’s perfect product to sell to their advertisers.

Perversion gets fantastically favorable treatmnt in the media because it makes fantastical profits for the media.


3 posted on 03/26/2013 9:14:42 PM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

It ends by calling conservatives and people of faith, bigots, so I’m tempted not to give it my time, but the facts are the facts.

Why have things changed so dramatically?

1) Coup by pedophile elements within the psychiatric circles to discredit and hide negative studies on sexual behavior, and remove deviant attractions from the list of mental disorders for no reason other than politics.

2) Public school education calling this a civil rights issue, indoctrinating children who are born to parents not interested in passing on values, some attending ‘churches’ that are no better.

3) Deliberate cover up of sexual realities, and the playing up of ‘emotions’

4) The general widespread demonization of any opinion grounded in faith.

There was nothing innocent or honorable in any of this. It was all covert, all with a final goal in mind, all based on lies.


4 posted on 03/26/2013 9:15:34 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Reason number one: It is consistent with B. Hussein Obama’s First Inaugural Pledge to “Fundamentally Change America.”

Reason number two: Democrats always follow reason number one.


5 posted on 03/26/2013 9:15:38 PM PDT by Graewoulf (Traitor John Roberts' Commune-Style Obama'care' violates U.S. Constitution AND Anti-Trust Law.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

They’ve had a media propaganda strategy that has worked very well. People now think that 25-30% of the population is LGBT. The media (TV and movies, primarily) and education has helped push the homosexual agenda tremendously. And as far as repealing DADT goes, we’d be seeing a much greater impact on recruiting and retention if the economy weren’t in the crapper.


6 posted on 03/26/2013 9:15:49 PM PDT by ConjunctionJunction
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

A lot of the trouble is people in the Church embracing it.


7 posted on 03/26/2013 9:15:58 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: OKRA2012


Don't fall for the propaganda.

This is a full-court press designed to influence the Supreme Court and the public that public opinion has changed.

I haven't seen any evidence, just the usual perverts pushing their agenda through the media and their supporters.
8 posted on 03/26/2013 9:18:52 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The next frontier for gay society: advocacy of adult-child sex. We were warned of this 20 years ago with the existence of organizations like NAMBLA. Of course, 20 years ago gays assured non-gays that they had no agenda, other than recognition. It wasn't like they would try and get into the schools, government contracts, or ......heaven forbid, marriage.

This is all like Rush Limbaugh's warning about SUV's. When you first heard him say they were going to become the focus of evil, most just laughed. Then media started writing news stories making (SUV) vehicles like they had personalities.

9 posted on 03/26/2013 9:19:15 PM PDT by CT (Obama is the product of a shiftless press, LoFoVo, and the conquest of Soviet style public education)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

There’s been a gay juggernaut since last summer. Remember Biden, too excited to hold it all in, came out in favor of gay somethingorother. Then Bambi did right after that, then the repeal of don’t ask, don’t tell, etc.

I think it all started with Glee.


10 posted on 03/26/2013 9:19:31 PM PDT by Ouchthatonehurt ("When you're going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

He mentioned Richard land kind of giving up and links to this as evidence?

“The denomination is a fierce critic of marriage equality and the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and last year passed a resolution “opposing the idea that gay rights are the same as civil rights.”

Richard Land, the denomination’s top political spokesman, has claimed that the Devil is behind homosexuality and warned that gay rights will lead to divine judgment and “paganization.” While the SBC believes it is wrong to consider gay rights a civil rights issues, Land compared his own anti-gay activism to Martin Luther King Jr.’s leadership of the Civil Rights Movement.”


11 posted on 03/26/2013 9:20:59 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: SoConPubbie

I’m not falling for the propaganda.

But, it seems there are many people who have.

That’s why they call it propaganda.


12 posted on 03/26/2013 9:21:55 PM PDT by OKRA2012
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What happened? Democrats and some republican politicians are unprincipled opportunists. So when it looked like it was politically advantageous to be against gay marriage, everybody was against it (look at the vote for DOMA). And as soon as it became clear that being for gay marriage could win the votes of the people on your side, every democrat jumped on the bandwagon.

Mark Warner was Governor of Virginia, a state which not only banned gay marriage but also civil unions, and he wouldn’t have come close to winning an election if he said he was for gay marriage. But now suddenly he is for it.

The real reason is that we have done a great job of teaching tolerance to the children. But we didn’t teach them the difference between tolerance and acceptance and encouragement.

And now, while they still cringe if you actually talk to them about what gay sex actually means, they just are “sure” that it isn’t “fair” that some people are “denied” their “right” to be “happy”. Even though nobody needs a marriage certificate to live together, to commit to one another, or to implement the structure of such an arrangement legally.


13 posted on 03/26/2013 9:25:58 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: OKRA2012

Mark Levin covered gay rights and the Constitution on his show today. He was brilliant, as always. He discussed how the Supreme Court has evolved into nothing like it was intended; how law like Roe v. Wade was created out of thin air. I wish I had saved it, but I was driving.


14 posted on 03/26/2013 9:28:28 PM PDT by CT (Obama is the product of a shiftless press, LoFoVo, and the conquest of Soviet style public education)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

It isn’t a gay issue, their numbers are too small. It is part of the left’s relentless campaign in place since at least Marx to abolish the moral underpinnings of western civilization.


15 posted on 03/26/2013 9:29:14 PM PDT by fso301
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To: OKRA2012

I think the Westboros have a part in this too creating sympathy for gays while painting Christians as hateful.


16 posted on 03/26/2013 9:31:20 PM PDT by dragonblustar (2 Peter 3:18)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Being as the gay community is also bringing back public sex (at least from their gay pride parades and pictures of today’s demonstration, you would be led to believe that’s their intention), I’d suggest we capture the positive benefits of public defecation.

The Romans went out to the street and used public toilets over the sewers. During this morning necessity, they would visit and exchange news and opinion with their neighbors. Some Roman writers said that much of the business of the nation was accomplished during this important time. It would serve to remind one and all today that everyone is equal. Additionally, our new gay ruling class would likely get a real charge out of it.


17 posted on 03/26/2013 9:31:28 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: CharlesWayneCT

I heard a fellow call in a conservative radio show today in Texas.

He said he was all for it and more!
He said he was boofing a husband and wife and that he wanted to marry them!
He never missed a beat, it was all logical to him.

Then a lesbian called in and said you should be able to marry 4 or 5 wymins and that age should not enter into it.
16? 12? 7?
Anything goes!
She too never missed a beat.
It’s all about love doncha know?


18 posted on 03/26/2013 9:33:45 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: dragonblustar

Westboro Church are evil bombthrowing lawyers with ulterior motives.


19 posted on 03/26/2013 9:36:06 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

There is a real Talking Points push right now to legitimize sodomy. Every article mentions it, Megan McCain is talking about it, yadayada. “The tide is turning.” “More and more people are supporting gay marriage.” etc.

I am not buying it. I think people are disgusted by it. Every society back through time has defined marriage as between one man and one woman, and for the protection of children. Just because they WANT it does not make it morally right, good for the children, or even viable.

Deafen your ears. Do not believe Megan, yahoo, WaPo or any other bit of tripe that has this meme. There is NOT a groundswell of support for it. But do watch for Talking Points coming out. I’m naming it for what it is - propaganda, aimed at deceiving and disheartening supporters of tradition.


20 posted on 03/26/2013 9:42:09 PM PDT by bboop (does not suffer fools gladly)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Our Nation is bankrupt. By spirit, by culture, by soul. What comes next is a harbinger. Learn to pray; for honesty. Pray with all your heart. The rest will follow. may God bless us


21 posted on 03/26/2013 9:42:26 PM PDT by RedHeeler
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Why has the structure of the gay rights debate shifted so quickly?

There are several reasons. First, for the past 20 years or more, the media has engaged in a full court press trying to "normalize" gays in America.

Then, of course, comes Hollyweird with their "gay agenda" programs such as Glee which seems to add a new gay character about every other week and The New Normal. And, finally, not to be outdone, the NEA has utilized the public schools to indoctrinate our children that gay relationaships are totally "normal" and don't harm anyone. However, what they have carefully ignored is that the children adopted or raised in gay relationships lean more toward gay relationships themselves than heterosexual relationships. It's a little factoid that the left prefer you not know.

22 posted on 03/26/2013 9:44:11 PM PDT by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for anti-American criminals!!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I don’t think there’s been all that much of a sea change among the public. Much of this “new support” is just kids going along with what’S popular as kids always do. Gays are among the most activist people out there...that’s the only reason we’Re seeing all this propaganda. I think gays know that their influence has peaked...if they don’T win this SC battle their power wanes permanently and gays go back to being thought of as deviants ...thus their desperation.


23 posted on 03/26/2013 9:46:33 PM PDT by what's up
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To: DustyMoment

Oh, and last, but not least, this whole issue is about ~3% - 4% of the population.

Squeaky wheel, meet the grease!!


24 posted on 03/26/2013 9:47:21 PM PDT by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for anti-American criminals!!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

It’s absurdly simple: without God, anything is permitted.


25 posted on 03/26/2013 9:49:54 PM PDT by LifeComesFirst (http://rw-rebirth.blogspot.com/)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Cultural hegemony

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_hegemony

Maybe someday conservatives will learn these was done by Will and Grace. Government only put the finishing touches on things.

26 posted on 03/26/2013 9:53:26 PM PDT by Red Dog #1
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To: Ouchthatonehurt

“There’s been a gay juggernaut since last summer.”

The gay juggernaut started in the Clinton years. The press once dubbed the decade “the gay nineties.’


27 posted on 03/26/2013 10:00:45 PM PDT by Luke21
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
We say no we don't want it, so courts decree it. We say no we don't want it, so TV and news constantly push for it. We say no we don't want it, so we vote against it, time after time, and courts continually say those votes don't matter. We say we don't want it, but they teach our kids that its bigoted not to allow it, and the kids eventually grow up. We say we don't want it, but then the country elects a homo to be president, and he says he wants it and that gets even more people on the bandwagon.

After a while, so many people throw their hands up and give in that this so-called tipping point is reached. Only those with strong will and an understanding of the moral basis for their beliefs do not bend to the unceasing drumbeat.

This is how they got the public to be against the war on Iraq, too, by the way. The people who control the levers of this society are quite powerful, and seem to be able to get their way no matter what we think.

28 posted on 03/26/2013 10:37:33 PM PDT by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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To: Luke21
The gay juggernaut started in the Clinton years.

One of the leaders was a man who proclaimed himself better on the homosexual agenda than Ted Kennedy, his name was Mitt Romney, campaigning AGAINST Bill Clinton's "don't ask, don't tell", because it wasn't 'total equality'.

Mitt wanted a fully open society and military.

29 posted on 03/26/2013 10:58:49 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: Defiant

Not sure about the President being gay, but other than that...well said!!


30 posted on 03/26/2013 11:11:23 PM PDT by 88keys ("This is no time to go wobbly"....)
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To: 88keys

Look into Larry Sinclair, the Chicago bathhouses, his poems from when he was in Hawaii with Frank Marshall Davis, his buddy Rahm Emanuel, that homo basketball player he takes with him everywhere, his Pakistani roommate, and then you be the judge. All I can prove with certainty is that he is a pussy and a metrosexual.


31 posted on 03/26/2013 11:15:16 PM PDT by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Comments?

What popped into my mind was Richard Burton's ( i.e. his character's ) comment in Night of the Iguana that we live our lives on two levels, the Real, and the Fantastic, and that trouble comes when we confuse the two.

It seems to me that gay marriage is in the realm of the fantastic, and that our society has entered that realm, while the everyday life of most people, or at least everyone that I'm aware of, is left behind in the reality of mothers and fathers and children and teachers and grandparents. It's like a Night Gallery episode.

32 posted on 03/26/2013 11:44:08 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: CT

“Mark Levin covered gay rights and the Constitution on his show today. He was brilliant, as always. ... I wish I had saved it, but I was driving.”

You can download it from marklevinshow.com

Mark Levin audio downloads
http://www.marklevinshow.com/sectional.asp?id=32930

Click on the show link with the date you want, right-click on “Right-click to download this show” and “Save Target As...” from the pop-up menu.


33 posted on 03/26/2013 11:56:05 PM PDT by PastorBooks
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Prager’s excellent essay, “Judaism’s Sexual Revolution: Why Judaism Rejected Homosexuality” is a must read. After reading it, I can say that America’s future is hanging on the edge of a cliff. It has been pushed there by the unrestrained polymorphous sexual drive of men who have cast off the traditional Judeo-Christian values that have set us apart in human history. For a good read as well as the discussion afterwards, go here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3001152/posts


34 posted on 03/27/2013 12:07:17 AM PDT by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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To: mylife
Any “Church” that does embrace the H-Mo counterfeit, is no church at all...at least, not a church that is inhabited by God.
35 posted on 03/27/2013 12:22:00 AM PDT by TheGunny
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To: OKRA2012

Check out “The New Tolorance” by Josh McDowell


36 posted on 03/27/2013 12:26:20 AM PDT by TheGunny
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To: SoConPubbie
Yesterday I got on the morning C-Span show and asked,

“If homosexual marriage is so accepted, if not popular as the polls tell us, where is the Constitutional amendment to make it legal? If its as favored as you guys would have us believe, a Constitutional amendment would sail through Congress and the States in no time.”

I got a lengthy non-response.

I also got cut off before I could ask if the 14th Amendment actually made the 19th Amendment unnecessary.

37 posted on 03/27/2013 3:16:29 AM PDT by Jacquerie ("How few were left who had seen the republic!" - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I remember reading an article about homosexuals in Time magazine back in the sixties. That might have been around the time of the Stonewall riots and the first big push for acceptance for homosexuals. I remember reading the comments of a few of the leaders of homosexual groups firmly stating that their goal was not only acceptance by society but complete equality with heterosexuals. Since then a lot of barriers have fallen.

Then you had the report in the early '70s of the psychiatrists saying homosexuality is not a mental disorder. Propagandists began spreading the lie that 10% of the population are homosexuals. Even the term homosexual was limited and most refer to themselves as "gay." And with Hollyweird making it seem that every family had a homosexual member, and that they were a persecuted minority, it was inevitable that we'd arrive at this moment.

38 posted on 03/27/2013 3:48:14 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: CharlesWayneCT

VA only passed its amendment by 57% in 2006. It would have passed by more if the wording wasn’t so strict, it seemed to bar any private contract between people like wills or medical directives, and the AG had to clarify what it actually meant. Plus Northern VA.

In my opinion, we have been conditioned to think marriage comes from the state, so many accept any impossibility as marriage as long as the state says so. To many they are simply contracts that can be broken and resumed between any parties the state decides. How does the state decide? It decides by whatever judges, pols, or the voting majority thinks of marriage at the time.

Freegards


39 posted on 03/27/2013 5:47:19 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

It’s mainly propaganda.

But to whatever extent there has been any “tipping,” it’s primarily due to the unreliability of libertarians in the cause of saving the republic, because they give away its moral basis.


40 posted on 03/27/2013 5:54:26 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Legislate that down is up if you will, but take my advice, don't jump off cliffs anyway.)
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To: fso301

This push is also to UNDERMINE CHRISTIANITY, ESPECIALLY Catholicism!!!! Gays are already getting married in Jewish Temples, God FORBID) and some Lefty Churches are doing this also.


41 posted on 03/27/2013 6:05:14 AM PDT by Ann Archy
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"Once the barrier to gays serving in the military fell, and...nothing apocalyptic happened, and once a few states began to experiment with gay marriage, and...nothing apocalyptic happened, the only remaining arguments against same-sex unions are religious and provincial. They're small. They're associated with bigotry. No one wants to be a bigot." -Marc Armbinder

"Nothing apocalyptic happened" - yet. History records years in words and decades in sentences, and its messages are clear and its patient work should not be mistaken for exception. The laws of Nature and Nature's God are certain, and God is not mocked. America is shaking its collective fist at what it knows is true, and we will be judged severely. Perhaps not today or next week, but the day is coming.

42 posted on 03/27/2013 6:36:48 AM PDT by Always A Marine
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