Posted on 11/06/2012 8:42:40 AM PST by Seizethecarp
To find out more about Obama’s time in Indonesia, TheBlaze tracked down Father Bart Janssen. He’s the elderly founder of Santo Fransiskus Assisis who we found in a monastery in Den Bosch, The Netherlands. We asked him, through a Dutch translator, what he remembers of the young Barack Obama.
Janssen doesn’t remember who registered Obama, but he recalls that Obama’s mother didn’t speak Indonesian at the time, so he thinks that both the stepfather and the mother would have been there together to register their son. He also doesn’t think the details in Obama’s registration document should be considered official declarations of his faith or citizenship because it wasn’t a government form and people played loose with such facts at the time. For example, it was typical to register as Indonesian and Islamic just because you were living there, so the religion indicated may just be what his father put down because it was the normal thing to do.
An exit after one term from the White House could act as a catalyst for more information more quickly. An Obama win, on the other hand, would likely keep any information – at least from the president himself — sealed for at least four more years.
Voters on Tuesday, then, may be deciding more than just who the next president is – they could help decide how much more we know about the one we have now.
(Excerpt) Read more at theblaze.com ...
Freepmail
A very important point for Afroyim in Afroyim v Rusk is that he did not ask for or file anything with the State Depart or INS to demonstrate an intent to renounce his U.S. Citizenship ... no Oath of Renunciation or Declaration of Intent to release himself from the privilege and obligation of U.S. Citizenship.
It is a similar situation with Obama. He did not post, file or ask to be denationalized as a U.S. Citizen. Yet, SoS issued Obama a CLN after his mother filed a passport renewal application and informed the State Department, as she was required to do per the instructions of the renewal form, Obama would have to be removed from her renewed passport because he had naturalized in a foreign state after she had included him on her old passport.
Obama’s name in parenthesis (Barack Hussein Obama, Soebarkah) and name struck through are in the instructions of the renewal form to indicate a person who had been included on the old passport and would have to be excluded on the renewed passport because he had naturalized in a foreign state.
SoS Rusk, based on the information provided by Stanley Ann, issued Obama a CLN without an Oath of Renunciation or any act or affirmation Obama intended or understood the ramification of abandoning his U.S. Citizenship. Rusk had a history of doing this. Some people, like Afroyim, sued in U.S. Federal Court to get their U.S. Citizenship back.
The U.S. State Department instituted a policy for minors who had been issued CLNs after they moved out of the country and naturalized in a foreign state to recapture their U.S. Citizenship and natural-born citizenship status. The policy indicated the former U.S. Citizen had until 6 months after their 18th birthday to file a form to declare their intent to keep their U.S. Citizenship and state an Oath of Allegiance. The Oath of Allegiance was required because Rusk issued the CLN because he determined the former U.S. Citizen had abandoned their allegiance to the U.S. by naturalizing in a foreign state.
For those individuals who didn’t perform an affirmative act to recapture their U.S. Citizenship, their U.S. Citizenship was lost. The only option left was to immigrate to the U.S., obtain a Permanent Resident Alien status, and the naturalize as a U.S. Citizen. Naturalized U.S. Citizens have all the rights and privileges of a natural-born citizen, except they are ineligible for POTUS and VPOTUS.
Seizethecarp and others are asking Constitutionalists to ignore the fact Obama was notified by the U.S. State Department his U.S. Citizenship had been terminated and he had 6 months after his 18th birthday to get it back. Obama made a choice not to recapture his U.S. Citizenship and let the deadline pass. Years later, Obama changed his mind and decided to naturalize as a U.S. Citizen. Naturalized U.S. Citizens are not eligible for POTUS. It’s a Constitutional issue.
“Yet, SoS issued Obama a CLN after his mother filed a passport renewal application and informed the State Department, as she was required to do per the instructions of the renewal form, Obama would have to be removed from her renewed passport because he had naturalized in a foreign state after she had included him on her old passport.
“Obama’s name in parenthesis (Barack Hussein Obama, Soebarkah) and name struck through are in the instructions of the renewal form to indicate a person who had been included on the old passport and would have to be excluded on the renewed passport because he had naturalized in a foreign state.”
This is all false. There no evidence of any CLN’s after 1967 for Barry or for any minor because SCOTUS ruled it unconstitutional.
Stanley Ann merely removed Barry from her personal passport likely for reasons having nothing to do with his nationality, such as Barry getting his own US passport.
In fact, as I posted upthread, if you look at her sworn statement, sworn in the presence of a US official, Stanley Ann actually affirms that any person in her filing, including Barry, has NOT lost his US citizenship. If he had, she would have had to strike out that term by drawing a line through it before she signed, but she did not. She also would have had to have referenced and included an explanatory statement, such as Barry was adopted and now has an Indonesian passport,which she did not.
Her removal of Barry from her personal passport, Barry would have had to have been a US citizen to have been on her passport in the first place! Therefore under the 1967 Rusk SCOTUS decision, no re-nationalization for Barry would ever be needed unless he personally took action after age 18 resulting in loss of US citizenship. US law regarding citizenship and nationality and NBC status is not governed by Indonesian citizenship or adoption law outside treaties.
As of 1968 Stanley Ann still names Barry’s apparent primary legal name as Barack Hussein Obama and then puts his secondary (inferior) alternate name as (Soebarkah) in parenthesis.
If Barry had been adopted under Indonesian law in a manner recognized by US law as governing, I would expect Stanley Ann to have given his name on her passport as Soebarkah without parenthesis and the put BHO in parenthesis.
Milestones of the early 80s around Obama and NY and Chicago.
6/1/1980-9/1/1980 Obama lives with Thummalapally. He is still in LA. When did he go to Hawaii to fill out his selective service form? “Thummalapally lived with Obama the summer of 1980. The two ran together daily, three miles in the early morning, often chatting about their dreams. Thummalapally wanted to start a business back home; Obama talked about helping people.”
7/30/1980 Date that Obama supposedly filed out and filed Selective Service Card. Uses address 1617 S. Beretania Honolulu Hawaii 96826. Phone - 808-949-2317. Supposedly SAD home.
8/28/1980 SAD divorce from Soetoro final (and as recorded in passport records)
9/4/1980 Selective Service Assigns Obama a number. From Allen letter dated March 4, 2009 FOIA request.
12/3/1980 WeatherUnderground fugitives Bill Ayers and Dohrn turn themselves in.
12/15/1980- 1/10/1981 Obama is in Hawaii. Meets 1/2 sister. Dates approximate. “The way his half sister, Maya, remembers it, Obama returned home at Christmas in 1980, and there he told his mother and grandparents: no more Barry.”
1/14/1981 Dohrn receives a $1,500 fine in court in Chicago
6/1/1981 Obama travels to Pakistan, India, Kenya and Indonesia for at least 3 weeks. Date is not exact.
8/17/1981 State Department issues rules for Pakistan travel - requires 30 day Visa. It is available at airport. Note - yes, US Citizens could get into Pakistan. But they did need a visa.
9/1/1981 BHO II goes to NY according to narrative story. Lives at #3E, 142 W. 109th St., Roommate is Phil Boerner.
9/21/1981 Bombing of ERU in Schenectady. Suspected of being BLA or WUO.
10/20/1981 May 19 Communist Group (fomer WUO) and Black Liberation Army (BLA) members rob Brinks truck killing 2 police officers and guard. Some black suspects who participated escape authorities.
8/1/1982 Obama (supposedly) cousin Raila Amolla Odinga indicted for coup attempt in Kenya He is arrested. Charged with treason and detained for 6 years.
11/24/1982 Obama Senior dies in suspicious auto accident.
11/26/1982 Date of Obama Sr Death according to some accounts. Why 2 different dates?
5/10/1983 Obama’s article ‘Breaking the War Mentality’ is published in Columbia University’s Sundial magazine.
6/15/1983 Valerie Jarrett marries Dr. William Robert Jarrett, son of Vernon Jarrett.
8/4/1983 BHO II turns 22.
8/15/1983-5/30/1984 Dates approximate. Obama starts work at Business International Corp. A company known for being a CIA front company. Supposedly works there for ‘about a year’.
6/1/1984 Obama moves to Chicago. “I came because of Harold Washington”
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-1993/Vote-of-Confidence/
6/1/1985 Obama moves to Chicago. Barack moved to Chicago in 1985 where he worked as a community organizer with low-income residents of Chicago’s South Side. Note - other entries says moved to Chicago in 1984.
http://www.barack-obama-bio.com/barack-obama-timeline.php
http://chicago.about.com/od/chicagopeople/a/ObamaTimeline.htm
1984 or 1985? When did Obama really move and start living in Chicago? If really 1985 then there is another gap in the timeline from summer of 1984 to 1985.
Note: Dates above have been documented from various sources. This is not a claim that they are accurate or proven (other than the historical events such as the terrorists activities - those are firm.)
“Why Catholic Social Services of Connecticut and not child welfare of Hawaii? “
Why Catholic Social Services of Connecticut and not Catholic Charities of Hawaii?
They do refugee “Pre-arrival, reception, and post-arrival services”.
http://www.catholiccharitieshawaii.org/site/384/immigrant___refugee_services.aspx
And that's what really bothers you, isn't it? The fact that the tax return which shows only one dependant child, indicates there's substance to what Sven is saying: so here it is again:
SAD Soetoro lost custody of BHO II in 1970 when he returned to Hawaii, alone. BHO’s II SSN application was filed by his case manager of the American Resettlement Organization located in Connecticut because they had legal custody of him throughout the 1970’s.
21 posted on Monday, 11 July 2011 11:01:36 PM by SvenMagnussen
I also pointed out that this dovetails with what Virginia Goeldner said Madelyn told her in 1982. Madelyn said they had been looking after zero because his mother died in 1970.
Goeldner said her sister-in-law actually raised Barrack Obama, or Barry as they called him, when he was young, after his mother died in 1970.
END OF STORY
U.S. law does not recognize dual citizenship.
=====================================================================================================
Yes, it does:
State Department rules discusses the problems associated with dual citizenship:
7 FAM 081: U.S. Policy on Dual Nationality:http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86563.pdf(e)While recognizing the existence of dual nationality, the U.S. Government does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Dual nationality may hamper efforts by the U.S. Government to provide diplomatic and consular protection to individuals overseas. When a U.S. citizen is in the other country of their dual nationality, that country has a predominant claim on the person.
...
the U.S. Supreme Court has stated that dual nationality is a "status long recognized in the law" and that "a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both." See Kawakita v. United States, 343 U.S. 717 (1952).
And this...
US State Department Services Dual Nationalityhttp://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html... The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.
However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there...
Therein lies the problem. The framers of the Constitution, the founders of the country, did not intend (post grandfather clause) for the President and Commander in Chief of the military to have...or have had, foreign citizenship.
A dual national is problematic (see above from state dept and SCOTUS), with allegiance owed to both countries and a President who has allegiance (or had allegiance) owed to a foreign power has conflicts, or foreign intrigue/entanglements as John Jay stated in his letter to George Washington during the Constitutional convention, or Jay, Hamilton and Madison in their Federalst Papers, or Charles Pinckney in his statement to the U.S. Senate in 1800, etc., etc.
They were very concerned with a Commander in Chief who had foreign attachments. That's clear. And for good reason.
If you have foreign citizenship, and therefore have foreign allegiance owed...you clearly have a foreign attachment. Direct attachment. And that presents an obvious problem when the President is in foreign policy talks with that country in which they had/have citizenship with and allegience owed. It also presents problems if we are ever at war with the foreign country that the President has/had citizenship/allegience owed with.
This is something we should STILL be concerned about today.
“9/21/1981 Bombing of ERU in Schenectady. Suspected of being BLA or WUO.
“10/20/1981 May 19 Communist Group (fomer WUO) and Black Liberation Army (BLA) members rob Brinks truck killing 2 police officers and guard. Some black suspects who participated escape authorities.”
Great work, bluecat6! The above entries are of particular interest to me.
I don’t give any credence to any CIA connection for Barry as a trusted agent, asset or employee of any kind, as I was screened by CIA in this exact timeframe (1983 under Bill Casey) and Red-Diaper Barry would be the last person they would let in the door. If anything Barry was trying to keep an eye on what the CIA was doing on behalf of KGB agents Ayers and Dorhn.
SOETORO-DUNHAM DIVORCE:
Just raises more questions, doesn't it? He's now nineteen years old, a Punahou High School graduate, probably no longer in Hawaii (where was he in August 1980?) Stanley Ann Dunham has returned from Indonesia (to which she would return) to divorce Lolo, and she claims 'they' have one 'child' over 18 who is still dependend on the parties for education'.
Well that was handy...shows he was no longer resident in Hawaii when the Soetoro divorce was granted.
By approving Chief Justice Warren's reasoning in Perez, the Court merely indicated the limits of the Afroyim holding. Moreover, Justice Black, in opinions both before and after Afroyim, has indicated that Congress may declare some acts presumptive of an intent to expatriate.
http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2608&context=californialawreview
Afroyim v Rusk applied to US Citzens who obtained another nationality and voted ... Sec 401(e). Other sections of the Act survived. Rusk continued to issue CLNs to U.S. Citizens when they did not expressly announce an intent to renounce. Consequently, the State Department issued a policy of notifying minors who had been issued CLNs of an opportunity to recapture their U.S. Citizenship until 6 months after their 18th birthday. Obama was an Indonesian National and not a U.S. Citizen nfrom 1968 to 1983. After 1983, Obama was a naturalized U.S. Citizen.
The Soetoro adoption was finalzed in Hawaii. Adoptions are not instaneous. The adoption process began with Stanley Ann and Lolo getting married.
From the time the Soetoro marriage and finalized adoption (approximately 2 years), Obama was Lolo's step-son. After the adoption was finalized in Hawaii, Obama's name was changed to Barry Soetoro, the Soetoro COLB was created and Lolo Soetoro was named as the paternal parent on the COLB.
The original long form BC with BHO Sr. as the paternal parent was sealed and archived when the Soetoro adoption was finalized in Hawaii.
The Soetoro COLB was sealed and archived after Obama returned to Hawaii in 1971 and the Court annulled the Soetoro adoption. A new COLB was ordered by the Court to indicate BHO Sr. as paternal parent with his race listed as "African".
Furthermore, the Court order Obama to remain in the custody of Catholic Social Services of Connecticut with Madelyn Payne as his guardian. Lolo and Stanley Ann were stripped of their parental rights in 1971 and could not claim Obama as their dependent from 1971 until 1979 (18th birthday).
After Obama's 18th birthday, the Soetoro's claimed Obama to be an over 18 YO , dependent upon them for education expenses.
Remember, BLA was originally a west cost based organization that came of out the Black Panthers in the Oakland area.
Here some good background.
http://icsr.info/2012/04/the-black-liberation-army-and-homegrown-terrorism-in-1970s-america/
“What was to become known as the Black Liberation Army emerged from the Black Panther Party, the pre-eminent “Black Power” organisation of the late 1960s. From its founding in Oakland, California in 1966, a clandestine wing existed inside the party.
...
But the BLA did not emerge as a separate entity until 1971, when the West Coast central committee expelled the New York Panthers. Banished party members went on to form the nucleus of an independent BLA.
...
During the next three years, the BLA wounded or murdered policemen in New York, New Haven, Philadelphia, Atlanta and St. Louis. The BLA’s area of operations extended as far as San Francisco. In August 1971, members carried out a string of bank robberies, attempted to murder a policeman, and mounted a nine-person attack on a precinct house that left a police officer dead.
...
Although the BLA’s reach extended across the country, New York was the center of BLA operations. Attacks on the police fostered a climate of fear within the ranks of the NY Police Department. As one patrolman said in early 1972, “I’m carrying my police special plus two non-reg weapons and I’m still scared shtless to walk on my beat.” As far as the New York police were concerned, the BLA was a criminal, cop-killing enterprise—despite whatever revolutionary rhetoric it chose to spout.
The FBI saw things differently. The BLA was criminal, to be sure, but it was not a gang of ordinary lawbreakers. In the bureau’s view, the BLA was a national security threat, primarily domestic in nature, but with possible links to hostile governments in the Middle East.
...
However, according to a 1983 FBI memo, various “black and white ‘revolutionaries’ of several radical/terroristic groups” continued to invoke the BLA’s name, which apparently retained some vestigial incantatory power.
...
Former BLA members also took part in a botched Brinks armored truck robbery in upstate New York in October 1981 that left two policemen and one guard dead. The group responsible for the failed heist (the “Revolutionary Armed Task Force” in a subsequent communiqué, but among themselves, the “Family”) included ex-BLA members as well as stars of the 1970s terrorist firmament, including Kathy Boudin, Judith Clark, Susan Rosenberg, David Gilbert, (all former WUO members) and Marilyn Buck, who the press described as “the chief gunrunner and the only white member of the BLA.””
Lets recap some interesting statements above:
New York was the center of BLA operations
Attacks on the police fostered a climate of fear within the ranks of the NY Police Department.
possible links to hostile governments in the Middle East.
retained some vestigial incantatory power.
fred,
not to get into a contest with you, but US tax laws relating to dependants are complicated and many times other than parents claim the child as a dependant for those purposes even though the parent may contribute to the welfare and education. 50% is minimum for tax purposes, and only one person can claim the child for tax purposes. Maybe this will help:
http://www.libertytax.com/eligible-dependents-for-tax-purposes.html
In fact, as I posted upthread, if you look at her sworn statement, sworn in the presence of a US official, Stanley Ann actually affirms that any person in her filing, including Barry, has NOT lost his US citizenship. If he had, she would have had to strike out that term by drawing a line through it before she signed, but she did not. She also would have had to have referenced and included an explanatory statement, such as Barry was adopted and now has an Indonesian passport,which she did not. Her removal of Barry from her personal passport, Barry would have had to have been a US citizen to have been on her passport in the first place! Therefore under the 1967 Rusk SCOTUS decision, no re-nationalization for Barry would ever be needed unless he personally took action after age 18 resulting in loss of US citizenship. US law regarding citizenship and nationality and NBC status is not governed by Indonesian citizenship or adoption law outside treaties.
Not true. The instructions you are talking about apply to person to be included. in the renewed passport. Persons to be excluded from the renewed passport are indicated in the Amend (Exclude) Section.
Stanley Ann wrote the name of the individual previously included on the old passport in the Section to Amend (Exclude) the individual from being on the renewed passport. Furthermore, Stanley Ann struck Obama's name after enclosing the name in parenthesis to indicate this person would be excluded because he had naturalized in a foreign state. If the State Department would provide a complete copy of Stanley Ann's passport records, then we would see a supplementary explanation as to why she struck Obama's name out on her renewed passport.
The Soetoro adoption had not been finalized when Stanley Ann included Obama on her old passport. Consequently, his legal name was Barack Hussein Obama. After the Soetoro adoption was finalized, his legal name became Barry Soetoro. If Stanley Ann had intended to merely indicate a legal name change on the renewed passport, then she would have written the amendment with parenthesis in the AMEND (EXCLUDE) Section. Clearly, Stanley Ann was excluding Obama from her U.S. Passport because he is now Indonesian.
The Obama-Dunham divorce, granted in March 1964, gave her custody - of a child we first see her with when she took him to the zoo at the age of around two. There's nothing to indicate his true identity. If she provided a birth certificate with the application for divorce, we haven't seen it. And if there had been a genuine BC for the child showing the kenyan and SAD as parents, for a birth that took place in Hawaii in August 1961, there would have been no need for the recent forgeries. I think this indicates that if a BC was supplied to the court at that time, that document would also have been a forgery.
As I see it, Stanley Ann Dunham obtained custody of an unidentified child which she probably brought to Hawaii with her from somewhere on the mainland where she was acting as his Nanny.
The enrollment at the U of HI would seem to follow, she shows up in the Spring of 1963. Thus, it's impossible to know who his parents were, or when and where he was born.
But legally, if the forged documents stand as evidence, then yes, the kenyan student gets to be the daddy. And any family court in Hawaii, charged with sorting out the mess in 1970/71 (it was around Christmas, remember?) would take the easy way out. There was no DNA testing. The kenyan student, named as father on the forged BC (IF SHE WAS REQUIRED TO SUPPLY ONE)and in the divorce docs, is the daddy.
Legally, Obama Senior likely took full custody. But probably only temporarily. He was likely a ‘conduit’ but not the final terminal.
He was a substitute. He must have been well rewarded, he was able to tour mainland US before commencing at Harvard, and install his younger brother at a private high school in Cambridge, with whom he shared accommodation. And that, after working at THE DOLE CORP pineapple cannery for a few dollars an hour - for ONE MONTH.
The only reason I posted that tax document was because it showed the Soetoro couple only claimed one child as a dependent on their 1973 return. You can make as many guesses as to why as you like, quote me any rules you want, the fact remains. They didn’t claim him as a dependent child.
And that fits with what Sven has been trying to tell us over and over again for-ever.
They couldn’t claim him BECAUSE HE WASN’T DEPENDENT UPON THEM.
He was supposed to be at school at Occidental (aka “Moscow of the West”) during this timeframe.
9/2/1979-5/31/1981 Obama on ‘Full Scholarship’ to Occidental.
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jan/29/local/me-oxy29
“But the Illinois Democrat began his undergraduate education at Occidental, and the 1,825-student liberal arts college in the Eagle Rock neighborhood of Los Angeles isn’t shy about claiming him as an alumnus for his two years there (1979-81) on full scholarship.”
LA Times: “...on full scholarship.”
Exaggeration? Or truth slipping out?
Much effort has gone into debunking the ‘Fulbright scholarship’ legend.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/occidental.asp
But the LA Times claims he was there ‘on full scholarship’.
So what type of scholarship does a dope-smoking kid with mediocre or poor grades get to Occidental? Maybe he wrote a heck of an essay!
More interesting reading concerning the ‘Occidental days’:
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/10/exclusive-transcript-obama-at.html
“Yeah, I’m certain that it was. It was considered sort of the “Moscow” of southern California. There were a lot of Marxist professors,...”
“I think people like David Remnick [a biographer], they make it sound like Frank Marshall Davis had no impact on Obama and that his friend Mohammed Shandu somehow converted him to Marxism at Occidental. And my impression is that Obama was the leader of that group and Obama was already very ardent and committed to Marxism.”
“...Obama believed, at the time I met him, this was probably around Christmas time in 1980. I’d flown out on Christmas break from Cornell, where I was in grad school. And Obama was looking forward to an imminent social revolution, literally a movement where the working classes would overthrow the ruling class and institute a kind of socialist Utopia in the United States. I mean, that’s how extreme his views were his sophomore year of college.”
“I’ve challenged President Obama to explain how he evolved this Marxist-Leninist viewpoint he had in his sophomore year of college. And he’s just never articulated how he changed. In fact, he’s buried and, I think, lied about his ideological convictions of his youth. And we can trace it all the way to Alice Palmer,...”
“I think his current behavior demonstrates that he still has some ideological convictions. When ever he talks about taxing the richest two-percent? I think he knows that will harm the economy. To him, the redistribution of wealth is extremely important. And he never took economics or science like I did. He went straight to law school, never had any business experience, never had a payroll to meet. And I think he’s locked in a very dangerous mindset, where if he didn’t fight to redistribute the wealth that he’d be violating [his] ideology.”
Let recap an important statement above that is very, very timely....
“When ever he talks about taxing the richest two-percent? I think he knows that will harm the economy. To him, the redistribution of wealth is extremely important.”
Bet the meeting with Boehner today does not go well....
OK, so she’s removed him for her passport, and she signed the application with the declaration. So who does the declaration refer to? Herself or the name removed? No wonder the world is full of immigration lawyers. I’ll stick with what I can see.
Barack Hussein Obama (Soebarkah) was removed from her passport.
What happened after that?
He arrived in Hawaii either unidentified without a passport or with a passport in the name of BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA SOEBARKAH.
I can’t see him boarding an aircraft in Indonesia unidentified, can you?
Either way, immigration would not be able to connect him legally to the Dunhams, who might have been waiting at the airport for him.
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