Posted on 03/03/2012 7:02:42 AM PST by Erik Latranyi
This is a year old... http://www.wnd.com/2011/01/254401/
Do you know what the word "prejudice" means? It literally means "pre-judging." Judging something before any facts. It has been my observation that these officials never make any statements that are clear and unambiguous. Take that stamp on his birth certificate for example. It says it is either a copy of the original, or an ABSTRACT OF THE RECORD ON FILE.
Well I know for a fact that the "Record" can be changed after the fact, and so saying something might be an "abstract of the record on file" means that it will say whatever they put in there.
The Stamp on Birth certificates used to say "A TRUE AND CORRECT COPY OF THE ORIGINAL RECORD." No ambiguity. Clear and precise legal meaning.
Why don't we wait till someone in Hawaii can say something which cannot be construed as weasel words before we decide how "birthers" are going to react to it?
We wouldn't put up with equivocation from a witness, and that's what these people are supposed to be.
And Hawaiian law is pretty clear on BC’s for children not born there. They will get the new COLB and it will list the actual place of birth.
Among other things mentioned by the Sheriff's cold case posse is that they have discovered individuals who were NOT born in Hawaii, yet have Hawaiian birth certificates which says they were. They also mentioned that some of these individuals were willing to come forward and testify about the circumstances surrounding their birth.
If this is true, it becomes apparent that Hawaiian law is proof of nothing.
“Sheriff Joe needs to step up and conduct an official investigation.”
Yeah, but there’s no money in that.
I think letting people stew without a clear resolution is what is doing the harm. Had Obama popped out with his latest long form in July of 2008, it would have nipped the bulk of this issue in the bud.
The Fact that he gave everyone inquiring the finger, only stirred up the passions all the stronger. A man went to JAIL because the truth was ambiguous. As I mentioned at the time, NO DECENT President would leave his military officers GUESSING whether or not he was legitimate!
The destructiveness of this issue lies entirely at the feet of the man who didn't feel it was necessary to allay people's suspicions. (And also at the feet of those conservatives who demanded we trust that liar regarding this subject.)
And I would advise being skeptical of any evidence the Birther Dumpling Gang claims to have. There is a definite pattern here as well. Grandiose claims of a smoking gun that never, ever pan out.
I could not get a drivers license without a legitimate BC. We now have county Law enforcement officials telling the SOS that there is no BC for Soebarkah.
If the SOS should hold a press conference and explains why they need cooperation from the whitehouse, and put the screws to Obama.
Play good cop to Arpaio bad cop, "I need to prove Arpiao wrong, allow us to go to Hawaii and inspect the Microfilm and original document to end this. Without seeing the original and the microfilm, we must rely on our Sheriffs evidence and numerous sworn depositions that your BC is a forgery and keep you off the Ballot. Please, either cooperate and help us get you on the ballot or remove your name from the Arizona ballot. You choose."
I agree. This is a great tactic. Unfortunately I don't think any governmental official in this nation has the guts to do such a thing. Arizona almost passed a law requiring accurate proof, and Jan Brewer vetoed it because she didn't want "one person" (other than the Head of DOH in HAWAII!) deciding who is legitimate. I personally think she was more afraid of losing Federal Grants and being made fun of by the media than she was concerned about too much power in the hands of the Secretary of State.
I cannot believe that such a great country has fallen to the point where it can be pimp-slapped by a con artist. Public officials not only don't have any guts and determination, they don't even know what is their job!
Registered mail straight from Hawaii to Arizona with the WH out of the loop.
They won't give them out without Obama's permission, and he isn't giving it. He wouldn't even send a copy to his lawyer in Georgia.
But yeah, your idea would be a good thing to do if it were possible.
Nobody will touch anything which questions Obama's legitimacy. It's not because there isn't something fishy about it, it's because they are TERRIFIED of what the media will do to them. Being accused of being a Closet Racist is the FIRST thing they will have to deal with.
When two investigators are selling a book on the investigation, one investigator is a prominent birther who has written a birther book in the past, and the editor of a prominent birther website is using the posse for fund raising, only a fool would believe that the posse was fair and impartial.
You are referring to Jerome Corsi, who I understand is not Part of the Posse, but is instead a person who gave them information. The guy HEADING the posse is NOW writing a book after the fact of discovering various inconsistencies surrounding the issue. Impartiality is important PRIOR to the investigation, but after the evidence leads to the conclusion that people are lying, it is no longer reasonable to be impartial.
The SoS will not risk professional embarrassment by associating with the birther movement.
You mean he won't risk being made a mockery of by the News Media. Our society now expects people to be brow beaten into submission when they question the first "black" President.
You may be right about this, but it has to do more with fearing the propaganda barrage which will be unleashed against him than any confidence in Obama's truthfulness or that of his documents.
If you are going after the president on the United States, you need at a minimum an official criminal investigation conducted by sworn Arizona peace officers. Sheriff Joe needs to step up and conduct an official investigation.
If he isn't legitimate, he never was President. People should have had this discussion prior to the election instead of wasting 3 1/2 years to finally look at his papers.
You put all the blame on one side. You CANNOT parse the words:
"A TRUE AND CORRECT COPY OF THE ORIGINAL RECORD..."
They simply refuse to use such words.
And I would advise being skeptical of any evidence the Birther Dumpling Gang claims to have. There is a definite pattern here as well. Grandiose claims of a smoking gun that never, ever pan out.
You are right. Everyone said he was legitimate and a "natural born citizen" and yet all those Grandiose claims have been demonstrated to be ambiguous. We still do not know the answer yet. All we have are assertions.
But I trust law enforcement officials more so than the politicians, so i'm inclined to believe they have something if they say they have something.
Hawaii says that the LFBC is a “True copy or abstract of the record on file..” and you gripe because you want them to say something different. Yet we both know you wouldn't buy it for a minute if they said that. You'd simply move on to something else.
And when Birthers reject anything and everything that contradicts their worldview, yeah they are gonna think that the question is still open.
So down the track the crazy train goes.
I am tired of Obama apologists who are quick to ridicule others but cannot defend their position based on facts. Have you read 338-18 (d)? How does it prevent Abercrombie to resolve the “top priority issue” (his words) and shut the birthers down?
Hawaii DoH could open up their vault and show the original birth registration index today, if they wanted to do so. Abercrombie promised to release everything that is allowed according to the law - yet they keep this information hidden from public.
Anyhow, Hawaii has apparently learned the hard way that there is no benefit to trying to reason with conspiracy fanatics.
Without out an official investigation with sworn Arizona peace officers nothing will happen. It is simple as that.
Hawaii says that the LFBC is a “True copy or abstract of the record on file..” and you gripe because you want them to say something different.
I want them to be UNAMBIGUOUS. You might need to look the word up. Apparently you don't understand what it means. Hawaii used to use the words "A TRUE AND CORRECT COPY OF THE ORIGINAL RECORD". This is what you call CLEAR and DIRECT.
Yet we both know you wouldn't buy it for a minute if they said that. You'd simply move on to something else.
You know no such thing. It is my understanding that they can be held legally accountable for swearing to something false. If they certify a document as being a "TRUE AND CORRECT COPY OF THE ORIGINAL RECORD" they have no wiggle room. If it is later determined to be untrue (Supposing Obama passed away and the Record became available to the public) They could be held legally accountable for attesting to a false statement.
They use those wiggle words to PROTECT THEMSELVES from false swearing or attestation. I don't WANT them protected. I want them facing LEGAL PENALTIES for attesting to something which is NOT TRUE.
We simply cannot accept their word as proof as long as they are using ambiguous words. They are like O.J. Simpson with his "If I did it" book thesis.
Maybe not even then. Also, I wouldn't characterize anything about this issue as "simple."
You've already decided that things are thus and so, why should they make any effort to work with you when your stated purpose is to accuse them of further mischief?
“Sheriff Joe needs to step up and conduct an official investigation.”
El Sordo: “Yeah, but there’s no money in that.”
So Sordo, if you believe that everyone is motivated by money, who is paying you to post vitriol on all the birther threads?
I have no problem with those who legitimately differ in opinion and provide compelling argument against some of these theories. And I will grant you that there are some pretty far out theories flying around on the birther threads. But so many times I’ve noticed your response to be one of attack instead of legitimate skepticism.
In light of recent events where reputable experts in their field have proven those associatd with Obama have falsified documents, do you still believe there is nothing to investigate? That it is all manufactured “coincidence” and that Arpaio is chasing shadows in the wind?
What is your threshold of belief? What more evidence or what more would have to occur before you begin to see the deception of this administration (and specifically, Obama)?
The birther movement started as a seed back in 2008 on FR and seemed a bit far-fetched at the time. But it’s grown to become a knarled and twisted tale with many surprising discoveries. After four years of stonewalling and counter-attacks by this administration, how can you look at Obama with confidence and say, “This man has nothing to hide”? That all these birther revelations are merely political posturing and bias?
If you truly think this is all a pile of crap, please provide the evidence or proof that discredits the findings of Arpaio and the Posse. Please address the issues and stop attacking those who honestly work to find the truth.
And please, please, please explain to me exactly why Obama has yet to release legitimate proof of birth in Hawaii.
Lets start with “reputable experts”.
Lets examine how this “posse” came about:
1. A group of birthers went to Sheriff Joe with Corsi’s nonsense from the birther book he wrote.
2. Joe said “I am not willing to spend my time and money looking into this. If you want to do it for free, you can join my posse.”
3. So the birthers round up a group of “investigators” to look into it. Corsi is their main source of data.
4. In a shocking surprise they discover that Corsi was right all along and the BC was forged.
5. Big press conference is held.
6. Immediately following the press conference, the lead “investigator” Zullos announces that he and Corsi have an e-book for sale detailing the results of the investigation. Also Farrah (head birther) puts out fund raising requests for WND and the posse.
That is why no one believes them. They have no credibility. They had a financial incentive to come to a certain answer. They have a documented history that proves their bias.
The birthers were just boned by Sheriff Joe and they don’t even know it. He played it perfectly - pleased his core constituency while not doing anything of any legal consequence.
Sheriff Joe needs to announce an official criminal investigation. One that would be recognized by the Arizona legal system as valid and impartial.
What are you doing on this forum if we are conspiracy fanatics? You have no explanation/answer for my question: Which law prevents Abercrombie to fulfill his promise? He could release the original birth index yet refuses to do so. I asked you this question several times and you keep avoiding it. Abercrombie said one thing but his action did not match his words.
What is a reasonable explanation for his behavior? You obviously don't have one.
They were addressed to two Obama apologists who could not answer it. Perhaps you can.
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