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1 posted on 12/19/2009 10:30:43 PM PST by UAConservative
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To: UAConservative
SNIPPET from post no. 1:

"This is terrorism, plain and simple."

2 posted on 12/19/2009 10:34:22 PM PST by Cindy
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To: UAConservative

Even simpler than that.

Simply carry off a coordinated commando raid to liberate whatever hostages and ships the pirates currently hold.

Then carpet-bomb the villages the pirates operate out of. For instance the of-mentioned Eyl is a ridiculously tiny place that a brace of B-52’s could flatten with the help of an AC-130 to apply the finishing touches to.

That would pretty much do it.


3 posted on 12/19/2009 10:40:17 PM PST by sinanju
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To: All

http://www.icc-ccs.org

For more information regarding pirates and piracy; click on the link above.

#

Note: The following text is a quote:

http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=table&tableid=70&calculations=0&Itemid=82

Live Piracy Report

The IMB Live Piracy Report displays all Piracy and Armed Robbery incidents reported to the IMB Piracy Reporting Centre in the last ten days. Click on the map for more details.

Incident Details: View
18.12.2009: 1823 LT: Posn: 09:17.8N – 014:49.3W: Off Conakry, Guinea.

Pirates armed with machine guns in a speedboat approached and fired upon a chemical tanker drifting. The tanker, increased speed, enforced anti piracy measures, reported to authorities and prevented the pirates from boarding it. No injuries to crew.

View
16.12.2009: 1735 LT: Callao anchorage: Peru.

Robbers boarded an anchored vehicle carrier via the anchor chain and by cutting the hawse pipe cover. They stole ship’s stores and escaped. Incident was only discovered after the robbers had left the vessel and when ship’s crew went forward to heave up anchor. The incident may have occurred when all crew were assembled in the accommodation during port authorities inspection.

View
17.12.2009: 1929 UTC: Kochi anchorage: India.

Two robbers boarded an anchored tanker via the anchor chain. The robbers broke open the forepeak store and stole ship’s stores. Ship’s crew noticed and chased them away. Seeing the crew the robbers jumped overboard and escaped.

View
15.12.2009: 2150 LT: Puerto la Cruz: Venezuela.

Duty seaman onboard a container ship spotted six robbers in a boat attempting to board the vessel. Alarm raised and crew alerted. The robbers aborted the attempt and moved away.

View
14.12.2009: 2100 LT: Posn: 12:02.S – 077:11.6W: Callao anchorage, Peru.

Duty officer onboard an anchored container ship raised the alarm when he failed to get a response from the anti piracy duty AB on deck. Crew went forward to investigate and found the AB lying on deck with his hands and feet tied up and minor shoulder injuries. The robbers had broken into and stolen ship stores from the forecastle store. Upon hearing the alarm the robbers escaped.

View
05.12.2009: 1800 LT: Posn: 22:12.6N – 91:46.4E: Chittagong anchorage, Bangladesh.

About 12 robbers armed with long metal bars in a small boat boarded an anchored tug. They stole ship’s stores and escaped. Local authorities informed.

View
11.12.2009: 0820 LT: Posn: 05:15.9S – 123:25.1E: Indonesia.

Four pirates, armed with a gun and spear in a speed boat chased a general cargo ship. Vessel took anti piracy measures and prevented the boarding.

View
06.12.2009: 0624 UTC: Posn: 10:50N – 060:00E, Off Somalia.

Armed pirates attacked and boarded a fishing vessel underway. They took hostage 29 crewmembers and hijacked the vessel.

View


4 posted on 12/19/2009 10:40:40 PM PST by Cindy
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To: UAConservative

A thoughtful, scientific analysis of the problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSBoO4GzHaI

Can you high-seas it?


5 posted on 12/19/2009 10:43:27 PM PST by LongElegantLegs (Raise the fanged and warlike mistress, stern, impassive, weaponed mistress...)
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To: UAConservative
Why not build Q-Ships that was successfully used during WWI and WWII by the British
7 posted on 12/19/2009 11:20:35 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld ("We will either find a way, or make one."Hannibal/Carthaginian Military Commander)
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To: UAConservative
For too long, we have thought of pirate kidnappings as a law-enforcement problem.

When have pirates of any time period been successfully dealt with as a law enforcement problem? They were eliminated by using military naval and land forcers. While trial, imprisonment and public hanging was part of the equation during the days of the Caribbean pirates as a deterrent I would prefer seeing any not killed outright bound and tossed into the sea.

11 posted on 12/20/2009 3:52:43 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: UAConservative

“Hunting down and killing people who attack Americans and our Allies.. Hey that’s what the Military is for..”

Let the Flying Islamic Pirates join the Flying Taliban Great!!

However defending these private vessels especially those that are not registered in the US with US Warships at this time..and under the current situation.

Nonsense.

(rewrite)

How is it.. that a minor security threat of this nature has become the financial responsibility of Governments therefore Tax Payers?

These Islamic Sacks of Crap are not hitting the High Seas in Warships.. they are running around with AKs, Maybe an SVD, possibly a 12.7 MG in open mostly wooden skiffs.

To protect themselves the ships will have to spend some money Armoring up the Pilot House or Bridge. Maybe the areas around some other Vital Organs. Harden and make securable hatching to on deck.

Not terribly complex.

The proper response should be: “Bridge to Security stand by to repel all boarders. Oh and the Captain said clean up your mess when your thru.. No more leaving Bodies in funny positions or places.. you scared the Cook last time and stunk up his Cabin...”

This is not a highly trained Team of Seals or Russian Spetznaz assaulting a vessel. It is a bunch of Amateurs. If anyone in charge used the brains God gave them. They would keep it that way by killing them all everytime they can to insure they do not become highly skilled as Pirates and pass on what they learn.

The truth is this whole Somali Pirate thing is a Scam!!!

Shipping Companies trying to foist reasonable costs of security on Western TaxPayers.

Our Navy is more than willing to take up the job cause it’s fun..right up their alley, what they do.

They are just the wrong folks for it. Like hiring a Le Mann’s Race Car Driver to pick up groceries at the Piggly Wiggley.

It costs US and other Western Nations Millions a day to provide security using our navies.

Why?... When for very little in terms of costs these ships could be defended by 3-5 man security contingents you could hire from most Western Countries. Armed with small arms.. 12.7mm (.50 Cal) and down along with a few guided ATGMs.

This calls for the fellows who guard the trucks that transport cash to and from Sam’s Club etc.. They are reasonably armed and perfectly capable of defending themselves if they can avoid being suprised and that’s for the most part really all thats needed.

Yes our Navy would like the Job has the Job apparently.. But they cost too much. Why are we paying millions a day so some company can get out of being responsible for their own security so they can save $25k-$50k (in wages) a voyage on the high side.

(side note) Reports have the Belgium Military Charging their registered Ships $50k per trip.. for Military Troops to be on Board without problem.

According the FP 20 SuperTankers travel the Straights of Hormuz daily.. So that’s $500K a day. (For the Store Brand or 1 million for Donald Duck Orange Juice..(Military) version to defend the entire fleet.)

No US Navy ship other than a harbor tug or an Inflatable costs less than a million a day just to operate. Now put a bunch of them out there wandering around... You get my point..

Smaller vessels can Convoy up and maybe have a couple security folks per vessel..maybe hire Blackwater to provide a patrol boat or two for the group..

The cargo of a Greek Supertanker Hijacked reciently was worth 100 Million Dollars.. Please spare me the argument that these companies cannot afford 25k to $50k for a security contingent.

If it is a Greek Registered Vessel the Greeks should secure it. If they want to use a Military Force they are quite capable of doing so.. (Don’t kid yourself Greece has a Coastline just a few hundred miles less than our own because of all the Islands that are part of Greece.) They have a greater capacity to project power over water in that region than the US and more methods of doing so.. We just can project it worldwide where they cannot. So who really needs our help? They don’t.

These Shipping Companies are just lazy, greedy so and so’s and want to pawn these costs off on everyone else..

They want US Taxpayers most of all to spend more than a million for US Warships a day each (How about Submarines? Sheesh). Have maybe a half dozen to a dozen floating around the area..(Some do have to be there anyway to deal with Iran. In that case and if they want to sink pirates on the side... fine, good practice as long as they kill them.

None the less my point holds..

These commercial ships need to assume a baseline level of active security.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/297358,hijacked-oil-laden-greek-supertanker-reaches-somali-coast.html

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/08/12/the_strait_dope

W


12 posted on 12/20/2009 8:55:10 AM PST by WLR (Remember 911 Remember 91 Iran delinda est.)
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To: UAConservative

While we may see the solution a bit differently it took real time and effort to create the very straight forward framework you have laid out for the Debate.

I simply want these companies to stop shirking their responsibility and pawning it off on the American people.

As things are now most ship owners do not want to pay American Fees and submit to US Safety and pay Regulations

Now for US Registered Ships:

Maybe we put a half dozen Marine Reservists aboard for a couple weeks cruise. Give them lawn Chairs.. A big cooler (soft drinks), Portable Swimming Pool and a Boom Box.. Single fellows only. Let them stop by PI or Thailand first and bring a Guest for company..

Now is that not reasonable?

W


14 posted on 12/20/2009 7:04:22 PM PST by WLR (Remember 911 Remember 91 Iran delinda est.)
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