Posted on 08/10/2008 2:21:32 PM PDT by pissant
Since the story broke late Saturday that Barack Obama’s real Birth Certificate, now in Republican hands, has the name Barry Soetoro and not Barack Obama, as we predicted a couple of weeks ago, I notice that many people are still confused about the implications of dual citizenship for Obama.
The matter is somewhat complex, so I’ve decided to try to provide a summary, with the help of resident expert ”Judah Benjamin.”
Indonesian Connection
Soetoro is the name on Obama’s Birth Certificate (BC) because a new BC was issued when he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, his step-father. His original BC, which we assume was issued for Barack Hussein Obama at birth, would have been sealed at the time of the adoption.
Barry Soetoro probably acquired Indonesian citizenship in approximately 1965-1966, and may still hold it. He possibly changed his legal name back to Barack Hussein Obama as an older child, teenager, or adult, possibly never did — but even if he did, this procedure would not result in a change to the BC. (If he never legally changed his name back, I imagine his current name on the Presidential ballot would be invalid.)
The Birth Certificate published by Obama on his campaign website (still there, by the way) and distributed to the media was forged because the real BC on file is in the name Soetoro, an identity he apparently wanted to hide from the American people.
I am getting reports from different sources that Obama traveled to Pakistan in ‘81 with an Indonesian passport.
Prior to 2007 (and possibly earlier), Indonesian law did not permit dual citizenship. Thus, if Obama actively kept his Indonesian citizenship, his US citizenship could be challenged.
I suspect that Obama may have dumped his Indonesian citizenship at some point along the way, to advance his political career. But I would not be shocked if he still holds it. This question, however, should not overshadow the serious problem of hiding his Indonesian identity from the electorate.
Kenyan Citizenship
I personally doubt that Obama holds Kenyan citizenship. If he did, he could be stripped of his US citizenship under US law.
Barack Hussein Obama probably was a citizen of the British Crown (first two years of his life) and, effective 1963, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of his father’s nationality.
Under the Constitution of Kenya, he would have automatically forfeited his citizenship at the age of 21 unless he affirmatively “claimed” it. If he took some action to keep his citizenship, that’s a big problem because 1) Kenya prohibits dual citizenship and 2) the US does not recognize dual citizenship with Kenya. Further under the Kenyan Constitution, given his circumstances, he could only have kept Kenyan Citizenship, if he had it, by means of a Ministerial, Prime Ministerial, or Presidential Decree. (Of course, Raila Odinga is Prime Minister of Kenya and Odinga’s father, Oginga Odinga, was Vice President of Kenya and Barack Hussein Obama, Sr, was a close ally of the older Odinga.)
If Obama retained his Kenyan citizenship and helped campaign for his cousin Odinga, that is especially problematic under Title 8 of the U.S. Code, the relevant language of which is:
a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—
(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years…
Again, I don’t think that Obama has Kenyan citizenship. I think that the Rocky Mountain report and Andy Martin’s work are poorly sourced on this point. I sometimes get the impression that Kenya serves as a diversion from the REAL PROBLEM, which is his Indonesian connection. It would be shocking to get actual confirmation of current Kenyan citizenship.
Electability & Eligibility Issues
These revelations raise several troubling issues for Obama’s electability and eligibility.
Foremost, there is the concerted attempt to cover up his Indonesian background and dual citizenship/identity from the electorate.
Secondly, there is a potential Constitutional problem with a POTUS having held dual citizenship, and Obama knows it; thus, the deception.
The “natural-born” clause of Article II is commonly understood to relate to the place of birth, but more accurately relates to loyalty to country as Commander in Chief. That was the original intent of the founding fathers. In McCain’s case, there is no question because of his circumstances (born on military base to 2 US citizens, later joined the military, never had anything to do with Panama, etc.). In Obama’s case, it’s not nearly so clear, especially given his travels, relatives, and associations in some of these other countries.
In my mind, however, the biggest problem is that Sen. Obama has intentionally concealed his background, Indonesian identity, citizenship, and the fact that he was at one time Muslim.
What else is he hiding? Credit must be given to Judah Benjamin, historian and former journalist, who has provided ground-breaking research on the factual and legal issues related to Obama’s Indonesian connection and dual citizenship; to Polarik for breaking the story of the COLB forgery; to Techdude for his analysis of the COLB forgery; to Dr. Kate for her tireless research efforts; to Michele, for bringing us a new COLB; to the No Quarter team for endless support; and to all the other writers and readers dedicated to the truth.
Lots of speculation being stated as fact. You usually end up looking foolish when you do that.
Somehow, I suspect this story will have a slightly different ending - I hope they their pound!
As much as I loathe Hillary!, if McCain fails to gain the Presidency I'd rather see her in the White House than that radical Marxist/Muslim!!
Some of this stuff you just can't make up.
The only thing I’m 1000% sure of is that his COLB is a forgery. The speculation is fun, and if it comes from enough corners, the marxistcommiebedwetter will have to cough up his REAL birth certificate and history.
Proof? Or is that too much to ask?
_________________________________________________
"Barry Soetoro probably acquired Indonesian citizenship in approximately 1965-1966, and may still hold it. He possibly changed his legal name back to Barack Hussein Obama as an older child, teenager, or adult, possibly never did..."
Probably...may...possibly...possibly not...
So much certainty in one paragraph....
Again, proof?
________________________________________________
"I am getting reports from different sources that Obama traveled to Pakistan in ‘81 with an Indonesian passport.
Reports from whom? Again - proof?
________________________________________________________
Where is any proof for any of this speculation?
Was Obama campaining for the Kenyan Communist Party?
WAS a muslim??? I think that Rev. Wright and his so called Cristian church are some kind of Muslim hybrid. Otherwise why the close relationship with the Nation of Islam???
Why would an adoption done in Indonesia under Indonesian law cause a change to a U.S. birth certificate?
Yep, apparently Odinga Odinga, Raila Odinga's father, hated his Christian birth name so much rejected it utterly.
He was also a Luo tribesman. Obama happens to be of Luo tribal descent via his father.
So when he visited his 'cousin' Raila Odinga it was perceived that a Luo tribesman could possibly become President of the United States. This gave the guy a serious boost.
Nice of the distinguished Senator to blantantly interfere in the elections of another sovereign nation.
Ignorant in the ways of legalities I have to ask:
If any of you or I were to submit a forged passport for anything - especially to show eligibility as a candidate for President of the USA, would we not be liable for some kind of lawbreaking???
How is it this guy has not been chucked into a holding tank for his misrepresentation?
When did illegal or copied or forged Birth Certificates become legal tender???
exactly...
Is Obama legally qualified to be President?
US Law very clearly stipulates: “If only one parent was a US citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16.
”Barack Obama’s father was not a US citizen, and Obama’s mother was only 18 when he was born, which means although she had been a US citizen for 10 years, his mother fails the test for being so for at least 5 years prior to Barack Obama’s birth. In order for her child to have been a natural-born US citizen, his mother would have had to be 21 at the time of his birth.
In essence, Mrs. Obama was not old enough to qualify her son for automatic US citizenship.His mother would have needed to have been 16+5 = 21 years old at the time of Barack Obama’s birth for him to have been a natural-born citizen.
Barack Obama instead should have been naturalized, but even then, that would still disqualify him from holding the office of President under current law. At best, Barack Obama is only a naturalized US citizen and does not meet the test.
Even if every word of it is true.
We need to beat him on the "he's an empty suit" or "he's a dangerous Maoist" premise.That's our only hope.
btt
Did it? The last major change to immigration law prior to Obama's birth was the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1952. Title III, Chapter 1, Article 301, paragraph g stated that "a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years..." was a natural born citizen. If the law was change to residing in the U.S for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16 then when did this change take place?
INA of 1952. Link at the bottom takes you to the act itself.
LOL...Hillary has a copy of Barry Soetoro’s birth certificate in her bulging file on him. Never fear...it will come out and he will lose this election.
I’m getting great fun out of this only because the Kos Kiddies and the rest of the left-wing bedwetters were first to bring up the “citizenship” issue with McCain and the fact he was born in the Canal Zone.
They hammered on about it even though they knew it was going to get them nowhere.
Now look what it got them; an indepth look into Osama’s background and his own birth certificate.
“All this “Osama’s a citizen of such-and such and he’s not a natural born US citizen seems like a non-starter,boys and girls.
Even if every word of it is true.
We need to beat him on the “he’s an empty suit” or “he’s a dangerous Maoist” premise.That’s our only hope.”
It’s politics. Things like this affect the vote of lots of people. We at FR are not so susceptible, but millions can be swayed.
Not to say we shouldn’t keep beating the issues drum, of course, but Joe Average doesn’t pay enough attention to what seems obvious to us. We also need attention-grabbers like this.
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