It all depends upon the Kangaroos in the picture, are they your buddies or your superior's'?
Posted on 09/11/2021 3:56:23 PM PDT by ducttape45
Good evening.
Thanks to all who commented on my previous thread about the vaccine mandate at the local installation I work at, but I wanted to ask a question in a separate thread.
What constitutes an unlawful order, and where can I find a good definition?
If I'm going to be forced out of my job because of the dictator in the White House, I want to be able to express my views on this whole matter in an intelligent manner, and I need help formulating my thoughts on the matter. Thanks for your help.
It all depends upon the Kangaroos in the picture, are they your buddies or your superior's'?
If you’re in the military, almost all orders are lawful, except those which directly defy the Geneva Conventions or the Laws of Armed Combat. But you better be prepared to prove they were before you flatly refuse.
As a civilian, you are not a slave nor bond to an oath, so you can quit vice follow an order.
UCMJDefense.com provides a detailed discussion with numerous examples and citations regarding the lawfulness of military orders under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice:
https://www.ucmjdefense.com/resources/military-offenses/the-lawfulness-of-orders.html
The gist is, “A superior’s order is presumed to be lawful and is disobeyed at the subordinate’s peril. To sustain the presumption, the order must relate to military duty. It must not conflict with the statutory or constitutional rights of the person receiving the order. Finally, it must be a specific mandate to do or not to do a specific act. In sum, an order is presumed lawful if it has a valid military purpose and is a clear, precise, narrowly drawn mandate.”
Definitely not my immediate superiors, who are all good, honest, respectable people.
Specific to Xiden’s vaccine order, Hofstra Law Professor Brenner Fissell provides an overview of “Can Service Members Fight Taking a Mandatory COVID Vaccine?”
https://www.military.com/daily-news/opinions/2021/08/12/can-service-members-fight-taking-mandatory-covid-vaccine.html
Though there are already members of the military and civilian DOD preparing to litigate the order, the system is not in their favor - wrong though the system most certainly is.
Thanks, I’m gonna check that out.
Has anyone put on kangaroo ears and hopped out of “traffic court”
I know in some places like portland contempt is no longer even a crime
I have two answers
#1 for civilians
16th American Jurisprudence, Second Edition, Section 177:
The general misconception is that any statute passed by legislators bearing the appearance of law constitutes the law of the land. The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and any statute, to be valid, must be in agreement. It is impossible for both the Constitution and a law violating it to be valid; one must prevail. This is succinctly stated as follows:
The General rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law is, in reality, no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of it’s enactment and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it. An unconstitutional law, in legal contemplation, is as inoperative as if it had never been passed. Such a statute leaves the question that it purports to settle just as it would be had the statute not been enacted.
Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principles follow that it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection, and justifies no acts performed under it…..
A void act cannot be legally consistent with a valid one. An unconstitutional law cannot
operate to supersede any existing valid law. Indeed, insofar as a statute runs counter to the
fundamental law of the lend, it is superseded thereby.
No one Is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.
#2 For military you are bound to obey any order given to you. However you will be held accountable if it is a “crime against humanity”. I was taught that if you thought what you were ordered to do constitutes a crime against humanity you can decline to execute that order, but expect to be subject to the UCMJ articles for that decision.
It is better to lose some stripes, money, or get a bad discharge, than it is to be hung or spend the rest of your life in prison.
We love our military, but we will punish them to the max if they screw up.
In some places like Portland contempt is required by Honor.
There is only one thing you own in this world.
Your property can be taken from you.
Your family can be taken from you.
Your freedom can be taken from you.
Your life can be taken from you.
The only thing you own in this world is your soul.
Your relationship to Jesus Christ and God.
You own that.
It is from this that you will receive your answer.
Anything coming out of Biden or Milly’s mouth.
an unlawful order is an order given without jurisdiction to give that order
Your employer has that jurisdiction under OSHA (duty to provide a safe workspace) even without a specific OSHA directive for any one situation. Same as the employer has enforceable jurisdiction (termination of employment) on mandatory drug testing. (2002 SCOTUS, Pottawatomie v. Earls, allowed mandatory random drug testing to extend to high schoolers)
You could try to argue that the OSHA rule only directs pandemic vaccine and so is arbitrary, but pandemics are exceptional and it will likely be shot down as immaterial in the face of the reality that 1 in 400 American adults, about half republican, have already died with 20% of survivors disabled.
Good information. Thanks.
Here’s a few examples of unlawful orders:
“You can’t record me in public!”
“I don’t have a good reason to bother you but SHOW ME YOUR ID!!!”
“You have to answer my questions or I’ll arrest you for being silent!”
“Show me your receipt!”
“You have to get a shot!”
“You could try to argue that the OSHA rule only directs pandemic vaccine and so is arbitrary, but pandemics are exceptional and it will likely be shot down as immaterial in the face of the reality that 1 in 400 American adults, about half republican, have already died with 20% of survivors disabled.”
But it’s overwhelmingly people who were old and had existing health problems who have died, not healthy young working people. And we don’t know the long-term safety of the vaccines.
I’m also concerned about the “20% of survivors disabled.”
I believe the official figures are inflated. Nevertheless, according to Worldometer, there have been over 40 million cases in the USA, and over 30 million have recovered (i.e. survived), and I find it really difficult to believe that 20% of them - that’s some 6 million - are now disabled! That would be truly frightening.
https://gab.com/LIBRARIANGIRL/posts/106916928994873143
This is a short argument on refusing the vaccine.
I saw an article linked in that as well. Very good find. Thanks.
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