Posted on 04/29/2019 10:09:48 AM PDT by Pelham
Like the British government of the American colonies?
What armed uprising? Did you not forget that the government sent armies into the seceded states, and not the other way around?
And this was improper because the south had said the magic words "We're a different country now, and you're not allowed to do anything about it," right?
Used to be. Lincoln changed the paradigm, or were you paying attention the last time I mentioned this?
Since Kansas is now irrevocably part of the larger Union, I can criticize the bone headed stupidity/lying which allowed them to "interpret" Article 1. of the Kansas constitution into allowing late term abortion.
How do you feel about this court's decision? And their reasoning?
If you could read it for yourself, I wouldn't have to bother.
Nations, as we define them today, can do dozens of things that make them sovereign nations which are denied to the states.
They weren't denied to them in 1787. The power always resides in the people, and it was simply on loan to the central government until Lincoln took it permanently in the 1860s.
I never said the Constitution forbids independence.
And you can't, because it doesn't. There is no supporting documents for this claim, but there are supporting documents to prove the contrary.
What I'm saying that just because some states made assumptions in their ratification documents...
The Declaration of Independence clearly makes their position the default reality at that time. The "assumption" is that a nation founded on the right to independence could deny states that right by claiming the constitution forbids it.
*THAT* is the position that has to be proven with some sort of supporting evidence.
Well, take care of yourself, FRiend. We all lose friends unexpectedly. It always comes as a terrible shock which we have to absorb in any way we can and still go on. But go on, we do!
Thank you. I love New Orleans but, yes, the climate is not for sissies. Air conditioning is such a blessing!
I think it wasn't any particular thing that any individual did. I think it was the collection of things to which they finally grew so weary that they just didn't want to deal with it anymore.
They probably saw the election of Lincoln as proof that things would never get better for them so long as they remained in the Union. They were outvoted, and had no ability whatsoever to control their destiny. They were literally a milk cow for the same group of people who control the United States today.
Clearly you understand the connection between slavery and money. Since you went to the trouble of looking up some stats, perhaps you looked up what they did? Some grew tobacco, some grew indigo, and various other stuff, but I doubt tobacco or indigo would grow any better in the territories than the main crop of cotton.
Would they have left if Breckenridge got elected?
Yes.
And this was improper because the south had said the magic words "We're a different country now, and you're not allowed to do anything about it," right?
No, that's just silly. They held elections and the people voted for self determination. Don't you know how this "consent of the governed" thing works?
I have not up till now had any losses of close friends, and I dread the possibility that I may eventually see more in the future, but I thank you for kind words and your good advice in how to deal with it.
You take care, and I'm sure we'll meet on more threads in the future!
:)
Probably not. Those advocating secession needed some sort of event to rally around, and they chose Lincoln because they could construct a narrative that people in their states might believe.
Just guessing. I don't know for sure what they would have done, but you can bet they noticed how much vigorish they were paying to New York and Washington. I think they would have tried something at some point in the not to distant future from 1860.
Since you were 40 yrs in the service you know that Lee more than paid his obligation for his West Point education.
And yet you decided to post as if he hadn’t. That doesn’t require extra comment.
I don't know about you, but most people wouldn't like being a milk cow for the Liberal parts of the nation.”
Finally!! You admit that the Confederate States seceded in order to keep the fruits of Slavery to themselves!!
It wasn't legal under any law.
...but once we won our war for independence, we changed the paradigm.
So what you're saying now is that rebellion is now universally accepted as a legal act? And that the process of trying to suppress the rebellion is the crime? Who knew?
Lincoln changed it back to King George's theory on government, (perpetual allegiance) and away from "Natural Law". (consent of the governed.)
LOL! Of course he did.
Nah, just ignoring your nonsense. Answer the question and forget Lincoln and the War of Southern Rebellion. In your perfect world, with Kansas being "effectively a nation by our modern usage of the term" they why are you complaining about what they do? As a nation state aren't they free to do what they want?
How do you feel about this court's decision? And their reasoning?
I haven't read up on it. Since Kansas is "effectively a nation by our modern usage of the term" why should I care what they do?
Sure it was. Read the Constitution.
And you can't, because it doesn't. There is no supporting documents for this claim, but there are supporting documents to prove the contrary
There is also nothing to support that secession as practiced by the Southern states was constitutional either. No matter what you may think.
The Declaration of Independence clearly makes their position the default reality at that time. The "assumption" is that a nation founded on the right to independence could deny states that right by claiming the constitution forbids it.
Well they weren't ratifying the Declaration of Independence, were they? They were ratifying the Constitution and agreeing to abide by its provisions.
His “country” was his state and if Washington had of been put in the same predicament he would have made the same decision.
“Myth - unless you can provide primary sourced data.”
Sourced data?
How about the words of people who were alive then?
My great-great aunt who prepared a meal for Fitz Lee the day after the surrender.
She herself told me to think of myself first as a child of Christ, second as a Virginian, third as a man of honor and anything else after those three.
Or my great aunt on my fathers side who grew up in the aftermath of the war. She told me many times we were Virginians first, American second.
That was also the attitude of all the older people I grew up around.
They revered God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
They reserved the spot next for General Lee. Then Gen Thomas J Jackson, then JEB Stuart.
My great aunt was a school teacher in her youth. She said that the country was still divided until WW2 and if that war hadn’t come along we would still be divided along the old lines. This was before the hippies.
From some of the comments I’ve read on this thread we are still divided along those old lines, just covered with a thin vaneer that easily cracks.
Good day.
Ignore these fools
This is all they are on this forum for
A waste of space
It would be great to have Nolu Chan back to expose who they really are.
They are all cowards nobody can vouch for them except maybe one another from their freepmail
Look at their homepages...nada
I don’t know anyone in the real world who claims to be conservative and says the things they do....I’m old I know a lot of conservatives especially given where I live
Btw look at who donates to this joint
You won’t find any of them who donate much
Of course they will claim anything
After all it’s the internet
So many have eventually been exposed as libs it’s ridiculous
Churchill and Reagan were fond of Lee as is Trump
But this canal of south haters know better...it’s laughable
The founder of this forum just weighed in on this issue
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3745601/posts
Let’s see these jackasses who’ve been polluting this forum for decades runnover there and show off
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.