Posted on 09/03/2017 7:38:37 PM PDT by Swordmaker
My parent built a second house on their property in Sacramento in 1954 for my grandmother to live in. Pacific Gas & Electric ran a gas line and installed a meter for that second house. They tapped the gas from the main gas line that was at the front house which had my parent's gas meter attached to it. That extra gas line to the second house ran about 80 to 100 feet farther to my grandmother's house.
Sometime in the 1970s the PG&E meter reader got tired of walking that extra 160 to 200 feet to read my Grandmother's meter every month and PG&E elected to MOVE the meter on her house to right next to the meter on my parent's house. The Sacramento Municipal Utility District's electric Meter reader didn't complain. . . the electric meter was about 10 feet farther back from the gas meter on my grand mother's house, and he actually had to go around my parent's house into the back yard by another route to get to the meter on their house to read theirs. Go figure.
In any case, PG&E moved that gas meter so it sat right next to the other gas meter so their meter reader wouldn't have to walk so far, hooked it to their pipe they had originally installed and then ran a connector pipe to jump between the inflow to the outflow gapping where the meter had originally been installed on my grandmother's house. . . all without telling my parents or my grandmother. It was a couple of weeks before anyone noticed. My father noticed when he was mowing and discovered he no longer had to mow around the meter by my grandmother's house and went looking for the meter!
Jump forward 40 years or so. Today the two houses are rental properties I own. One of my tenants calls and says there is a strong odor of gas by the gas meters. I call PG&E to come and check it out. PG&E's technician John shows up on a Sunday and announces that there is a gas leak on the "unauthorized owner installed gas pipe going toward back house" and RED TAGS the meter and shuts off the gas!
I call PG&E asking "WHAT THE HELL?" To which they answer "They have no records of any gas lines authorized to be installed from that address to another address!" and besides, they only will repair gas lines THEY installed up to their meter, and that all leaks "after the meter are the customer's responsibility."
I point out that THEY DID INDEED INSTALL THAT METER and that gas line, and that they, for their own convenience, MOVED IT from it's original location.
"We have no record of that on that property. You are responsible for any repairs to pipes on the customer side of the meter, sir."
"Do you really think I would voluntarily elect to MOVE a meter so that I would be responsible for repairs for 100 feet or so of underground GAS LINE?" I ask.
"Well, you or your parents did, or they must have installed it."
"No, I just told you that PG&E moved it for their convenience, not ours."
"Do you have any paperwork to show that from when it was done?"
"Of course not. PG&E did it on their own. They didn't even tell us they were going to do it."
"Well, you are responsible for fixing it, not us. It's on the customer side of the meter."
"PG&E installed this gas pipe and PG&E moved the meter for THEIR convenience not ours. Why would I accept responsibility for thousands of dollars of potential expenses for PG&E's convenience?"
"Well, you must have."
"Let me talk to a supervisor."
"I am a supervisor. You can't talk to anyone over me who will tell you anything different. You have to fix it. You can make a claim against PG&E if you like. Oh, and you'll have to get the city to inspect it before we can turn it on, because that pipe was never authorized to be there."
"It WAS put there by PG&E and inspected when the house was built in 1954. Not according to our records. That meter is for an apartment in the front house."
"There is NO apartment in the front house!" It's a three bedroom, two bath 960 square foot house, no apartment. It has a separate ADDRESS from the house in the back. We've been receiving TWO PG&E bills from these two houses for 35 years. I did until they were rented to TWO DIFFERENT TENANTS. They've been paying two different bills!
"Oh. Uh, what are the addresses?"
I give him the addresses.
"Well, it's been red tagged. You've got to fix it, get it inspected. Only then can we turn the gas back on. I'll give you the phone number of our office you need to talk to about getting an OK to be reimbursed, but I doubt they'll do it. They're not open until Tuesday."
"So my tenants are going to be without gas until someone can pull a permit. Why do we need a permit to do a repair?"
"Because it's not an authorized gas line."
"The house was fully permitted and inspected with an AUTHORIZED GAS LINE installed by PG&E in 1954 and YOUR COMPANY MOVED THE METER! Repairs should not require a GOD DAMN PERMIT!"
"Replacing an unauthorized gas line does!"
"It was NOT an unauthorized gas line. How many times do I have to tell you, PG&E installed that gas line and PG&E moved the blanking meter????"
"We have no records of that."
"How far do your records go back?"
"I have no idea."
AAAARRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
I forgot about them.
I wonder why?
GMTA
So, PG&E installed an unauthorized gas line on your property? Too bad you likely do not have as-builts and/or photographic documentation of the periods before and after PG&E performed work, without your permission, on your property.
Here in NC the gas co. will dig and install a line and meter up to about 100’ at no charge. Beyond that they will charge by the foot.
Could you get them the run a line, set a new meter at the apt? Rid of the old line.
There was a reason they didnt inform the property owner when they relocated the meter, and that simple reason is because they screwed you 40 years ago.
You should try to get some of that $1.5mil that Sacramento is gonna give to the gang bangers to not kill people.
If this had happened to me, I'd be moving the tenants out of the houses and burning them both to the ground.
That’s SOP for a gas and sometimes water companies. They move the meter to reduce their exposure to repairs. Once the meter is moved, the additional piping between the meter and the house is the owner’s responsibility. Even if you prove they moved it, it won’t make a difference unless Kalifornia has different consumer protection rules than other places.
Lawyers are a lot like helicopters - they are noisy, complicated, work when they want to, and are sometimes obnoxious. BUT, when you need one, nothing else will do and the costs suddenly seem reasonable. Get you one NOW.
Do you have any of the old gas bills, so you could fax it to the gas co., to prove you had two legitimate lines and gas meters?
Also, there are times, when all else fails, you may need to get an attorney. This maybe one of those times. The gas co. may respond better to them.
Oh man, what a crazy hassle! Suggest you take a close look at the meter and pipes, see if there are any seals that would help prove PG&E did the work (such as wires with lumps of metal glommed on). That they have read the meter all these years and accepted payment would seem to establish that there was nothing amiss, but you may need the services of a lawyer to explain that in the correct language, and to the correct people within the company to get them to back off. Good luck, and stay away from the liquor cabinet in the meantime ;-)
If PG&E installed their meter, how is it an un authorised pipe if they have been accepting payment of the bill for the last 40 years?
If you remembered them you’d know why you forgot them...
Nah, not that bad, just one of many one-hit wonders.
I understand your plight. I have had a running battle with a trash pickup company that overcharged me for years on an apartment building I own and now won’t rebate the difference.
But, redoing the gas line won’t be unbelievably expensive. With the new yellow plastic pipe and a Ditch Witch it should only be a couple hours of a plumber ($450) and $250 in materials. It’ll be cheaper if you rent and run the Ditch Witch at roughly $125 a day.
Plus permitting at $75.
Could be all in less than $1000.
I know the reality you are in and the crap you have and will face, but once the dust settles, you will be out $1000 - it could be a lot worse.
One more thing — the guy you talked with may be a supervisor, but he still has someone over him. Ask him for the name of his boss and send him a letter, registered mail.
It would be good to have that and give the info to your attorney. As I said in my previous post, you may need one in your situation.
Two words that come to my mind regarding PG&E are Erin Brockovich. That little pollution case cost PG&E over $300 Million.
That's what you call the "Fairy God Mother Department" (Thanks to Robert Heinlein's "Time Enough For Love"). I got connected to the "Department of Dirty Tricks." It's open 24/7 and has multiple lines bandager operators. The FGMD is only open alternate Tuesdays from 11:03AM to 11:34AM, but the phone is usually waiting for a repairman from the DDT guy's, who are all working overtime, elsewhere.
later
There is a chance the city may have something left from the permitting process that shows the original meter location.
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