tell her planes leave for france several times a day, pick one...We were briefly in France last summer on a tour. Our tour guide said they paid 56% in taxes.
Now I understand how France is the world’s ecconomic powerhous and in the forefront of medical technology development.
Cannot comment on France. However, a friend from the UK waited for a minor surgical procedure until on a business trip to Germany. He had no confidence in the UK’s NIH and Germany provides quality care to all. I know Taiwan has good government healthcare.
Point being healthcare varies widely by nation. Another friend who lives in Brazil said they call their government provided healthcare “the butcher shop” and folks will take out loans to cover costs rather than go to the butcher shop for treatment.
Puzzled
5.2. French Income Tax Rates
Income Share Tax Rate
Between €9,711 - €26,818 14%
Between €26,819 - €71,898 30%
Between €71,899 - €152,260 41%
Above €151,261 45%
Here’s a link to a page
https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2016/medicine#sorting=rank+region=+country=+faculty=+stars=false+search=
Listing the top med schools in the world
The US has FAR and AWAY the most.
15 schools rated 5 star
France has ZERO
It depends on what you mean by “superior”.
The most important thing to remember about so-called “health care systems” is that 95% of their customers (a/k/a “voters”) are either worried but not sick, or only a little sick and in need of a simple remedy. As a group, these people share two features: They can be cared for much more cheaply than they are in the US now, and they (again, as a group) do not want to pay when served.
The care of this 95% in Europe is CLEARLY superior to the US system, in cost, in outcome, and in satisfaction. This has been shown in studies over and over again, so many times as to be indisputable.
The American system excels with innovation and the care of complex, morbid illnesses. But we pay for this by overcharging most people most of the time. The people don’t like this, and they seek solutions from their politicians,
My rule of thumb has always been: If someone tells you how great something is, and it sounds like wonderful Utopia...it IS Utopia.
And Utopia doesn’t exist.
The reason why these systems work well in France (and in other places) is that they are relatively small systems serving a more homogenous group of people (or were until recently). The larger the system gets, the more it breaks down, as is happening in the UK right now.
Also, if you have a lot of immigration that taxes the system (see UK). The more people you have not working and paying into the system, the more fragile it is.
You also need a very high degree of regulation of doctors and other health workers and of hospitals etc. to make a single payer system work. Otherwise you get rampant corruption and fraud (see our Medicare system). The larger the bureaucracy the more waste and fraud you have (see UK see our Medicare system and VA system).
What might work is a State by State system (not Federal) where you have to pay into a State health tax system for 5 years until you are eligible for “free” healthcare.
If we had real insurance, that was ONLY catastrophic insurance, and everyone paid out of pocket for routine health care and meds, then you could also have a robust ‘single payer’ system.
With the system we have now there is so much waste and fraud in the system because of the humongous bureaucracy.
There is not perfect system. The best system (not perfect) would be free market where doctors and hospitals and drug companies have to compete.
What we had before were State sanctioned insurance monopolies and also huge government protected monopolies in Pharma. That was kept in place with Obamacare (and I guess now in the new proposal). This cannot work.
‘Single payer’ could work on a smaller scale ... or with massive amounts of oversight. Think of it this way. Our Defense system is ‘single payer’. And we have large entrenched special interests who lobby government for defense contracts, and a lot of waste and fraud. We could spend probably half what we spend now on defense and still have the strongest most capable military in the world.
The same would be true of a ‘single payer’ medical care system. It would be huge and unwieldy with an ever growing bureaucracy IMO. Otherwise, I have no problem with the concept as long as everyone pitched in. It’s the size and powerful entrenched interests that would be created that I have a problem with. Which we have now but it would be worse.
It is superior to ours in results and delivery.
It is paid for by unmercifully high taxation, which results in limited free market opportunities.
Choices, choices.
You get immediate appointments
Immediate treatment
To fellow Freepers......truth please.
Your friend is a liar.
A Family Friend is a famous Guitarist now in his early 70’s.
While in France he tripped and fell in the Street. He broke his Right Arm in two places.
He was taken to the Hospital and they “set” his Arm.
He flew Home a couple of days later and his Wife took him to an Orthopedic Doctor.
They had to “reset” his Arm because it wasn’t quite right.
Which reminds me. My Father In Laws Wife had am issue when vacationing in Sweden. The Doctor there gave her Medication to treat it.
When she got Home she went to see her Primary Care Doctor. She showed him the Medication and the Doctor threw it away and gave her something else. He said the Medication she was given in Sweden was used to treat Horses.
Hey Pea,
I had my gallbladder removed in Paris some years ago while on a business trip. I had a severe attack lasting hours in my hotel. The hotel sent a doctor to my room. He diagnosed my problem as stomach flu. I told him that it was something more serious.
At my insistence he sent me to a place to get an ultrasound image taken. There were several pregnant women there getting ultrasounds of their babies. They looked at me strangely. I was sprawled out horizontally on some of the chairs in an attempt to get comfortable. The ultrasound showed that I had a large gallstone The doctor apologized for his earlier diagnosis and sent me to the American Hospital in Paris, which may well be the best hospital in Paris.
I was glad that was where I was being sent. This is the place the sheiks come to get medical treatment. They apparently come to the American Hospital in Paris for medical treatment rather than to other French hospitals, but I’ve not seen statistics on where the sheiks go.
I do not remember the nationality of the doctor who operated on me. I only met him briefly, but I was almost out of it in pain at the time. He did speak English. I looked just now at the papers recently published by members of the hospital staff. Based on their last names, most of the doctors who authored the papers appear not to be Americans, but they could well have been trained in the United States.
I had a fever, so the hospital doctor thought I should have the gallstone removed there in Paris quickly, rather than having me fly home to the States to have it removed there.
Anyway, the operation was successful. The gallstone they removed was an inch in diameter. I had to stay in a hotel in Paris for about nine days afterward until my incision healed enough for me to fly home. This was before robotic procedures were developed to remove gallstones through very small incisions. My operation left a large scar across my abdomen.
About a year after the gallbladder and stone removal I developed a large hernia on the incision scar. The surgeon at home who repaired that hernia shook his head that the Paris doctors had only sewed up one layer of muscle at the incision rather than two layers of muscle as he would have done.
The French nurses were something else. When I was taking a shower, they would come in and suddenly open the shower curtain. Maybe that practice would enliven the care we get in our prudish American hospitals.
On checking out of the hospital in Paris I sat waiting about 30-40 minutes while the check out lady on the staff just ignored me and handled other later arrivals at the discharge office. That was the only time I have ever seen rudeness from a French person. Finally, in desperation, I asked one of the other people in the office so that the rude lady would hear, that I was doctor so and so (well I am, but a PhD, not an MD), and I wanted to check out of the hospital and pay my bill. I’m pretty mild mannered and wouldn’t have ordinarily spoken up like I did later, but I had politely told the rude lady when I arrived that I wanted to check out. My later frustrated statement to others got the rude lady’s attention, and she immediately started processing me out, perhaps fearing that a “doctor” like me might tell the French doctors of her behavior.
That was my experience with the semi-French health care system at the American Hospital in Paris.
I have a friend who had a sudden gall duct blockage in Paris, and was admitted to a french hospital. It was filthy, the guy in the next bed’s urine bag broke and the nurses never cleaned it up. Also he was in severe pain but e ven when they finally acknowledged that they didn’t give him pain meds other than aspirin. After three days they finally diagnosed him with a machine in a room with one bare light bulb, as he was flat on his back in severe pain. He ended up being transferred to the American hospital there where he was promptly given pain meds until the blockage passed. He told them about his experience in the french hospital and the staff told him they don’t give out strong pain meds in the french hospital because they’re too expensive. True story.from about 3 years ago.
When the Mid-East types come....they come to the private clinics or facilities with the top-notch doctors, and they stay for an extended period. The chief reason they pick the European private clinics is the lesser chance of an infection situation. You will find a number of clinics in France, Germany, and the Netherlands where they pay for the better services.
tell her planes leave for france several times a day, pick one...The French, and liberals, define compassion as the number of people they provide welfare to.
Americans define compassion as the number of people who do NOT need welfare.
Sad that so many French need welfare.
I lived in Paris for 3 years, came down with a disease they didnt find for months even though the symptoms were obvious and growing (physically)-they kept telling me I had a throat infection. I went to my Dr in June, was told she would finally order an ultrasound on my throat BUT there were only TWO units in the entire hospital and they were booked-I could get an appt for it in SEPTEMBER.
Frightened, I picked up the phone and called our family Dr in Atlanta. He listened and said it sounded like thryroid disease—Hashimoto’s to be exact. He asked when I was coming home, told him I was making the arrangements as soon as we hung up. He said “ come straight from the airport, I will tell the staff I want to see you the minute you walk in the door”. One week later I am in his office, he makes an appt for me to see a specialist surgeon the NEXT DAY, I go to him and he confirms it is HD. One week after that I have surgery to remove my thyroid. The surgeon told me it was so bad it was like “digging out glue”. One week after that the biopsy came in—CANCER NODULES were in the thyroids and if I had waited until Sept for treatment I would have already develeoped throat cancer.
France is the tranquilizer capital of the world. Per capita, more French are on tranquilizers than anywhere else in the world.
Pharmacists can question Dr RX so if you drop off a RX and the Pharmacist doesnt think you need it, they will call and argue with the Dr who prescribed. This happened to me multiple times (I was American, Dr was British so I suspect that had something to do with it too)
Your friend has never been seriously ill or she wouldnt think the French system is so great. It is only great if you have nothing else to compare it to
Not only is France among the countries that avoid / ban GMO, the French evidently have a more balanced diet than Americans do.
French paradox
What is the status of your friend compared to the average Frog? When it comes to those with socialized medicine, there are definite “caste” system that determine who gets what kind of service.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-192562/3-000-die-French-heatwave.html
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/weather/news/2003-09-25-france-heat_x.htm
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4259-european-heatwave-caused-35000-deaths/
http://lubbockonline.com/stories/081603/wor_081603097.shtml#.WQ4HMmWu7dQ
My grandmother died during that heat wave, August 14, 2003. We could not bury her until mid September. She lived in Germany. We lost two more family friends during that period