It will shoot 9" 5 rnd groups at 400yds. Its almost as good at 600yds but I haven't a range to work with it enough.
For me it would depend. In an urban combat environment with close shots I would take a M16/M4 type rifle for the larger magazine capacity.
If out in rural areas I would pick a M14 or 7.62 scoped bolt rifle. The rural squads need some 50 cal Barrets too.
That's no big deal, really, now that full auto in everyone's hands is declining except for such special cases as urban warfare where the M4 is at its best. They've been talking about a caliber conversion for years, but filling the logistics pipeline with parts and ammunition for a new caliber is going to be an expensive process. If they start now they might be ready by 2020.
Vietnam was a very different battle field than the middle east. In the ME, you have longer engagement distances with 300 to 600 yards not being uncommon and marksmen/snipers being able to extend that range to 1,000 yards.
7.62 works well in that space. M-14 is a rifle already in stock, so it is a natural fit. But truth be told, any 7.62 rifle that is reliable would work.
Alternatives include:
M1 / M14 in bullpup configuration
AR10 and variants like the Remington R25
Keltec RFB
FNH FNAR
FN SCAR
FN FAL
{and others}
In our foreseeable future most of our enemies are chicken feces terrorists that hid a long way away and use IEDs and hide behind children. We don’t have face to face line battles with the Muslims, I mean terrorists. A longer reach round like the 308 might be more effective.
Ed
No real problem, the AR-10 in various flavors flourishes. Easily chambered in one of the new-fangled long range cartridges.
Plus, the take down and manual of arms is the exact same at the mouse (M-16) gun. No retraining, just get used to a bit more weight, especially in ammo load.
Was that tested and shelved or just another case talk being cheap?
I prefer a scoped FAL to the M14. But if I had to carry it around all day, I’d prefer something a lot lighter. Something like an m1 carbine updated with last round bolt hold open, rock in magazines, improved ammo.
7.62x54R?? The bad guys are shooting Mosin’s?
I loved- and still love- my old Big Ugly M60. Learned from an old ‘Nam hand how to fire it standing, on the run, and from the hip. Best education I ever got.
It will shoot 9" 5 rnd groups at 400yds. Its almost as good at 600yds but I haven't a range to work with it enough.
We complained that we were getting killed while "Matty Mattel" failed us in combat and we were told that we were cleaning them wrong or using the wrong lubricants, or not cleaning them enough - but the real analysis was that we got a new weapon that hadn't been tested enough and the subconscious issue was that our lives didn't mean enough.
The M-16 was lighter, space-age looking, and nicely cheaper to make and you could carry more ammo and everybody could be an automatic rifleman but it was a disaster and we lost a lot of good, solid young men in their singleminded push to get tens of thousands of them into our hands.
The M-14 was long and heavier but we got used to that. It always fired when you pulled the trigger and it hit and killed what you aimed at. In Vietnam we had engagements all the way from three feet to 500m and the '14 was capable of both and everywhere in between. Vietnam had intense heat and humidity, heavy rain and mud, and huge clouds of dust and the simple, open action of the M-14/Garand system and the AK handled everything easily. The M-16 has a small and inaccessible chamber and stoppages required a full disassembly and sometimes even that didn't work.
Combat is the very last place on Earth that you want an unproven, insufficiently tested system.
I kept my M-14 long after I was supposed to get an M-16 and I still resent the bastards the pushed the M-16 on us.
“#9: Mosin-Nagant M44
Speaking of guns without safeties, here’s the Mosin-Nagant M44 Carbine from Russia. The Mosin was used by the Russians against the Finns, the Finns against the Russians, the Estonians against the Russians, the Russians against the Russians, and the Russians against the Germans. It does, in fact, have a safety, but it’s quite hard to engage. But this is not a complaint one would ever voice in the Red Army. Your officer would reply, “Safety? Safety? Is gun! Meant to kill! No warrior should know he has safety on gun, because he should be killing enemies of homeland! Safety make loud click to aid enemy in locating warriors! No safety!” while pounding his fist on the table.
And the Mosin can kill enemies of homeland. The muzzle blast will vaporize green growth within a few feet of the muzzle, and even if you miss, the enemy will be reduced to shouting “WHAT?” to communicate. You’ll need a recoil pad or shooting jacket. Ordinarily, this might be considered unmanly, but this rifle has a short stock for using while wearing several layers of wool for a Russian winter. It is acceptable to wear padding to fire a Mosin.
Of course, there are also M38, 91/30 and other variations of Mosin-Nagant and all are cool. All, also (except the M38), come with a bayonet. Russian doctrine held that the bayonet was mounted except while traveling in a vehicle, because the Russians understood that an empty rifle could still be a pointy stick—a Viking spear. The Russians loved to spear Turks. So, coincidentally, did the Vikings. This rifle sounds better all the time, doesn’t it? The Finns used the Mosin as a sniper rifle during the Winter War, and their greatest Sniper was Simo Häyhä, who had 500 confirmed kills in 100 days. This is a man the Finns describe as “modest” and “self-effacing.” It’s a good thing the Russians didn’t run into a Finn who was proud and arrogant. They’d have been wiped out.
It fires a 7.62X54R (for “Rimmed”) cartridge, about as powerful as .30-06, and holds the distinction of being in service from 1891 to the present, longer than any other military cartridge. It is still used in Dragunovs, PKMs and other Russian weapons. It’s cheap in quantity. So are the rifles, because they were built for (all variations) over 70 years, by Russia, Finland, Poland, Romania, even the US. As I write this, arsenal-new M44s are $55 to $200. At that price, you should have several, so any guests you have during the Collapse can be outfitted as they receive Enlightenment. Then they can rape, kill, sack and loot with the rest of the men who secure a new Dark Ages to hasten the new renaissance. It will be a manly duty.”
What is the status of the work they briefly did on the 6.8 SPC? It was designed to fit in the magazine well of the M4/M16. It only needed a new bolt and barrel. It had good downrange ballistics.
Really? Given the calibers mentioned, a thousand people on this board alone could tell you the engagement distance.
With this latest development in the arming of America combat troops, Colonel Jeff Cooper is vindicated. He used to say that eventually, with the longer combat distances in the Middle East, the US would eventually have to go back to a larger caliber weapon.
Soviet doctrine was to have each squad, or at least each platoon, have a marksman armed with a 7.62x54R Dragonov, for hitting targets at longer range.
We should do likewise.
One of the best references on the subject is ‘American Rifle - A Biography’. The quest for over two hundred years and been smaller caliber, harder hitting loads that are lighter to carry.
This doesn’t necessarily equate with lethality.