IIRC, there was also a case of a Chinese submarine surfacing inside the wires of a Carrier Battle Group.
Yes our new action Navy was too busy cross dressing and tooting on their bunk mates horn pipe.
I doubt it. We’re still building aircraft carriers and equipping them with aircraft that are out ranged by Chinese missiles.
It’s battleship mentality redux.
Hopefully - I wonder how training budget cuts may have affected the readiness of the Captain/crew - it has been mentioned by some folks who are/should be "in the know" as having serious detrimental affects on our readiness.
I wish there were stats on % of subs that penetrated the ASW screens. Of course that would be top secret. The only news I see are these occasional individual incidences.
My gut is that ASW has gotten short shrift since about 1990. Not good.
One of the indications is that nothing replaced the Hoover in the inventory, so there are no longer carrier-based fixed-wing ASW assets.
I recall that during my time on aircraft carrier we used to joke about them being big grey targets and wonder where pilots thought they were going to land if the shooting got serious.
BTW ~ C19fan, I did two cruises on CVA19. Any connection?
Hey, I respect all my bubblehead brethren.
Death from below! and above, and behind...
Wartime and peacetime exercises are totally different. It is ridiculous to compare sneak attack in peacetime with wartime operations.
It is amazing the ignorance on Free Republic about ASW, peacetime cruising vs wartime operations.
In the second phase of the exercise, the Saphir switched sides and became part of the enemy force."
This could be an explanation of how the French sub wasn't immediately recognized as an enemy sub. It had changed sides in this simulated battle and the word wasn't adequately passed that it was now an enemy sub and not friendly.
It was simply a case of mistaken identity and not a penetration of convoy's defensive permiter by the French sub.
Lessons learned? In Oblamo’s military? Oblamo wanted to hire Klinger (from MASH) to be the fashion guru for Military cross dressers. Oblamo thought Klinger was real...
A LOT depends on the rules of engagement.
In additin, US carriers are each being armed (when they come in for maintenance overhauls) with a new anctie, anti-torpedo system in addition to the decoys and electronic measures they already employ which have tested very effective. These of course are not tested in such exercises because no torpedoes are actually launched.
The new active system employs an anti-torpedo, torpedo which is launched to destroy the incoming weapon.
My guess is, that the rules of engagement heavily favored the sub.
In addition, my own contacts in the naval ASW community tell me that the Chinese sub surfaced because it was tagged and made clear that it had to surface. The truth of that is something we will not know for probably 30-50 years.
Later
IMO, Carrier battle groups will be easy targets in any major war. Given today’s surveillance tech, there will be no place for the carriers to hide from enemy ballistic missiles, high speed surface skimming missiles, & stealthy submarines. One hit from a nuclear tipped missile or torpedo will decimate a carrier battle group. A growing number of not so friendly countries possess this capability.
A carrier battle group, in order to get its planes within range of an enemy country, must move deeply into range of enemy land based missiles & war planes. The enemy will know far in advance of any such incursion, having spotted & tracked the group, probably since it left port. Given the relative slow movement of the group, the enemy will have much time & opportunity to engage it long before it reaches its objective.
Ships are limited in the armaments they carry. Ships having 100 anti-ballistic missiles are great until 200 ballistic missiles are fired at them. Land based war systems have no such limitations of space & carrying capacity, & as with ICBMs, range is not a factor.
In any major war, say between the US & China or Russia, a carrier battle group will be virtually useless against the rain of missiles coming at it. Even if it manages to defend itself, its defenses would be depleated long before it can engage the enemy offensively.
Neither enemy would hesitate to nuke such a group, if for no other reason than to give us a devastating morale blow, as well as a huge economic blow. Replacing a trillion dollar battle group is not doable very often without bankrupting the nation, nor is it something that can be done quickly & easily during a major war.
For a carrier to contribute in the next major war, the enemy’s surveillance capability will have to be crippled along with much of its missile arsenal. Until then, the carrier will have to depend on land based defense, such as it is (pathetic), in the US, or stay as far away from the enemy missiles/submarines as possible.
What we are left with are extremely expensive carrier battle groups that are only effective against relatively weak opponents - Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan. For more powerful enemies they are irresistible, relatively easy targets.
If I controlled the money I’d spend it on missile technology & space warfare - the next war, & stop trying to prepare to fight WWII again.
2015 ,Obama term so there’s no one in charge and the crew were told to ignore EVERYTHING ?
It helps that I was thinking like a 688 skipper and anticipated where they might want to go.
"Ceterum censeo Islam esse delendam."
Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)
Pfffttttt. Does France even have any Orion or Poseidon aircraft? The simulation allowed them use of ours to find the carrier group. In a real shooting war, we are the ones with the Orions and Poseidons, and they are hunting enemy subs!
Kudos to the French for acing the exercise with a stacked deck. In real war, we are so far ahead of the pack it isn’t funny.