Posted on 09/26/2016 10:49:16 PM PDT by EinNYC
Hillary Clinton won that debate. Or, rather, Donald Trump lost it.
Here’s what I mean by that. Normally, what really lingers in the mind after a presidential debate is an own goal. Think of Al Gore looking like an uptight prig as sighed through his debate with George W. Bush in 2000, or Marco Rubio’s New Hampshire malfunction at the hands of Chris Christie.
That brings us to Trump’s Monday night and a performance that could be very charitably described as uneven. What was the worst moment, I wonder, the one that we’ll all be talking about in a week?
Was it when he directly attacked Clinton’s looks before that ugly pivot to her “stamina” at the end? His “birther” answer and shots at Sid Blumenthal, a person most Americans have never heard of? Or how about his persistent interruptions of the first female major party nominee, a tactic unlikely to endear him to Main Line mothers?
I think my favorite was when he said Clinton had been fighting ISIS her entire adult life. Usually, I think I understand what Trump is trying to get at, trying to communicate. That one, however, left me totally stumped. Please feel free to leave your suggestions on how that should be interpreted in the comments.
Clinton’s performance was less-than-stellar, which may be just a meaner way of saying it was good as we ever could have expected. She has this tendency to look very self-satisfied after delivering a zinger that’s clearly been crafted by someone else in Brooklyn and then tested on voters in a fish tank. It’s grating.
But Clinton looked presidential, in command of the facts, in command of the room. Trump sensed that he’d lost the initiative early, and lashed out. He looked cornered, his eyes at times flurrying around the room as if he were facing off multiple enemies at once. Newt Gingrich has a similar tick when he feels he’s losing; at his worst, in moments like these, Trump comes off like Newt without the intellect, which is a scary thing indeed.
So two scenarios, moving forward. The first is that Trump is finished. He got smoked on Monday night, coming across as too ignorant, narrow-minded and, most importantly, erratic. (Here’s a word you’ll be hearing a lot the next few days or weeks: temperament, as in the one Trump doesn’t have to be president.)
Clinton clearly hoped to have Trump lose his cool, she succeeded, and maybe – to make a reference her team will get – this is the moment when President Bartlett sent his Bush-esque opponent packing.
Scenario two begins with the observation that Trump had a tendency to, by many accounts, lose debates during the primaries, yet always kept his lead. “Maybe this really is the start of a decline that will be as quick and remarkable as his rise to the top of the polls,” some idiot wrote at The Daily Beast after Trump’s performance at the Reagan Library debate in September 2015. (Full disclosure: that idiot was me.)
Yes, yes, this isn’t the primaries anymore, but there should always be a hesitancy to proclaim that Trump has been vanquished. In fact, there have been so many “Trump is finally finished” pieces written since the late 1980s that it might qualify as some kind of journalistic subgenre.
But he’s still there, still standing, still quite close to the presidency. So maybe this does not lead to some collapse. And if doesn’t, well, there are two more of these presidential debates to go. Some will remember that Mitt Romney was widely seen as the winner of his first presidential debate with President Obama in 2012, an outcome that led to some genuinely entertaining liberal pundit freak-outs.
My bet is that Trump manages to survive this. He’ll take a hit in the polls, perhaps a bad one. But this doesn’t quite feel like the moment that finishes him off completely, if only because Clinton’s flaws are still there in abundance, and the more fire Trump takes, the more weirdly sympathetic he can look.
Plus, just to repeat myself: there are two more debates left, in addition to a Mike Pence vs. Tim Kaine fight. In a presidential year, October can be very long month.
I must respectfully disagree. Trump cited incorrect facts when calling attention to the 4,000 murders in Chicago since Obama took office. This is demonstrably false.
Reliable sources place the actual number as closer to 4,500. I am shocked that Lester Holt, who formerly worked as a broadcaster in Chicago, did not point out this obvious discrepancy.
Besides matters in Chicago are well under control since Rahm Emanuel, a political ally of both Clinton and Obama, is serving as Chicago’s mayor. His policies and leadership will produce quick results given time. After all, he has only been mayor for six years.
Yeah. IMHO the best answer there was, “If Hillary is elected there won’t BE a country.”
They declared her the winner before they even had the debate. Pay no attention to these little clowns and their carnival.
last seen in some NYC homo bar?
You forgot the sarcasm tag.
Remember, to non junkies, Trump is the unknown, the outsider.
Tonight he surely could have done better but he’s a novice in this arena.
So he held his own and showed he wasn’t the boogey man, so, for the undecided, that’s a plus.
He needs to learn and get more focused for such artificial events.
Basically he demonstrated to all that he is indeed a viable candidate.
Are you asking is he a journalist, well then yes.
It is called wishful thinking. Then again, the stock market makes no sense on many occasions.
I thought Trump could have been a bit more aggressive tonight. Having said that, I thought he did well considering it was two against one. Holt was helping Hillary, that was obvious. What is the point of a moderator?
“Trump is finished. He got smoked on Monday night, coming across as too ignorant, narrow-minded and, most importantly, erratic. “
Been there, seen it and still have the lousy t-shirt from the visit but, there he is; “Still Standing”.
Let’s not forget Obama was demonstrably smoked by Romney and thought to have been finished until Candy Cowley gave him an assist.
Trump didn’t lose but, Hillary didn’t win.
I give her a slight Edge. Though I wonder if she had been “Fact Checked” the number of times Trump was, how she would have actually fared.
Trump is a winner, who learns from his mistakes.
Clinton can only be pulled along by a willing and complicit media.
I expect the next debate will be more like Rocky II, with both sides taking devastating blows but, Trump will, in the end, be screaming “Adrian! Adrian!”(Melanie would better).
Clinton will sulk off to the losing corner.
Trump is not practiced in this crap. I certainly never took "debate" in school, and am a slow respondent in an argument. But I am far more intelligent than the fast talkers.
Only the "sound bite" idiots put much stock in these media orchestrated shows. I would have been surprised, and possibly dismayed, if he came off more like a yapping politician that does this all the time.
"There you go again" is a once or twice in a lifetime repartee. He did not let Cankles or that MSM twit trip him up. No Porker Crowley moments for the media.
Trump wins.
I thought for a non-politician, Donald Trump did fine, especially given a 3rd debater was teaming up against him.
hilLIARy was very arrogant and came off as an elitist snob. She was up there and represented everything that has gone wrong with America. I think Trump got in his jabs pointing some of that out and needs to continue to do that.
CGato
Hillary came across as “presidential” and Trump came across as commander-in-chief. In a fight of 2-against-1, Trump emerged slightly rumpled, but not bloodied and certainly not bowed. For undecided voters, that overall tone may be more important than little rhetorical points.
CBS scraping the bottom of the barrel, hiring that Daily Beast hack.
However, how I wish he would have done better...Benghazi, emails when cyber security was mentioned...less about his money, hotels, and taxes....More about her incompetence and Saudi money and Goldman speeches....
But I bet that she is encouraged by tonight and re-starts her ebbing Ohio campaign.
“Normally...” The writer is suspicious at the start.
While she “won” the debate she needed to “sell” herself as something she is not and never will be. A thoughtful, concerned human being. At that she failed miserably. She showed the world she is just a slimy, slandering, say anything to get elected, politician. Exactly what 90% of this country is sick of.
So she “won” the debate, thankfully she failed miserably at the mission. Check the online surveys. Trump 60%. Thank God. Pray Trump learns from this experience and improves. He HAS to quit making everything about him. If he can become the humble servant who has put on his weapons and armor to fight for the country we love he can win this BIG.
Just my two cents.
Trump won with NAFTA reply.
Trump won with jobs to China.
Trump won with jobs to Mexico.
Trump won with Iran threat.
Trump won with the Iran bribe $ payoff.
Trump won by not using pre-staged notes.
Trump won by being himself vs. the staged note reading robot.
Trump won by his Fed rigged interest rates remarks.
Trump won by stating the truth about Saudi-Arabia (and other nations with their free rides)
Trump won by the restricted questions diversions from real issues.
Trump won in his comback reply to the so called “Cyber Threat” set-up question (400lbs and all)
Trump won with his ISIS tag on Clinton.
Trump won by having Pence remarks after the debate.
Because in Crony Capitalism the crony candidate keeps the trough full (for those with a ticket).
I don’t listen to Non-contributors to FR
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