Posted on 09/03/2016 8:24:21 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
New studies have failed to find even a single positive benefit to spanking children and a near endless amount of horrible effects. Dr. Elizabeth Gershoff joins Stefan Molyneux to discuss her latest study, refuting the common pro-spanking arguments, why social justice warriors have nothing to do with less aggressive parenting, associating love with physical abuse and ending the escalating cycle of violence in relationships.
Dr. Elizabeth Gershoff is a developmental psychologist, in addition to being a Faculty Research Associate and Associate Professor of Human Development and Family Sciences at University of Texas at Austin. She recently published a revolutionary new study called “Spanking and Child Outcomes: Old Controversies and New Meta-Analyses.”
(Excerpt) Read more at youtu.be ...
Don’t be an ass. You have brought an extraordinary claim, then castigated anyone who didn’t fall in line with your acceptance of it.
Give us an encapsulation and then let us decide whether your assertions merit hearing her out.
Wow. So your argument is that Molyneux was conceived with Original Sin.
That certainly refutes everything he has to say!
It’s amazing the illogic and the spleen that comes out on FR whenever anyone questions spanking.
People are just IN LOVE with hitting children!
Perhaps you should reread what I said about not being an ass.
Scripture nowhere forbids the use of a computer or any other tool. What a foolish demand you make.
Ok, now I watched it. And I question this kind of studies. First, she did not do the study. She looked at results from several other studies that may have been studying something else. Researchers love this because its the cheap way to publish a result with lots of cases. But to really rely on the research you have to design a study and run it. She did not.
I have a few questions about the study that make me not trust the outcome. Firstly she is biased. She is a parent who believes strongly that kids should not be spanked. So when reading anecdotal evidence I would say she is going to interrupt it with a bias against spanking. Second, she can’t really correct for bad kids and bad parents. Had she done a study where kids with poor parents who spanked and poor parents who did not spank. Or do ineffective parents spank more than effective parents.
I recently saw a report that says that black parents spank far more than white parents. So how can you say that spanking alone explains the outcome of the child.
I do agree with some of their points. Structure and rules firmly held and consistently applied works best for most children. They also said that explaining works better than punishment when possible. I agree. But they also are firm believers in negotiation. I am not. In some cases I will accept a little. But when it comes to rules, I don’t bend. Or at least I don’t let it be known if I do bend.
And lastly, I do believe that they are right when it comes to escalation. Spanking is your last card. So it should be played rarely if at all. If you think that you spanked and it did not work so you need to spank harder. Than you have already lost. Spanking should be so rare that it shocks the child into thinking that something is very wrong and it can’t happen again.
Frankly, oftentimes there is not enough TIME for negotiations; particularly when one is dealing with more than one child at a time, let alone the corrosive effect that has on parental authority. I am teaching my child that not all negotiations are legitimate, and should not be entertained.
Women are particularly adept at steering negotiations into a non disprovable corner, and I have no intention of teaching my daughter that such manipulation constitutes a "win."
I was not spanked; I raised five children that I did spank. The difference? My parents were atheists; I am a Christian.
I am not “in love with hitting children.” Perhaps you are “in love” with asserting your wisdom over God’s.
At any rate, my kids have turned out well by most objective standards
Not one has ever been arrested
Not one is on drugs or ever has been
All adults are working good jobs or are full time students
Not one is abusive
All are respectful of authority
All are generally very happy
All are giving, gracious, kind, hard working people
None have required any sort of psychiatric care
Not have evidenced any self harm behaviors, ever
All seem to have healthy good relationships
Not one ever ran away from home
Now we did ALL of God’s word, not just the spanking part. There are many spokes on the biblical parenting wheel. Furthermore, I know that you can well nigh be a perfect parent and still have a very messed up child - there is a lot of evil in this world, and perfect parenting can not a perfect child make.
That said, if spanking was somehow bad - if Gods word is in error - it seems to me our kids would have had a few more problems than they do.
>They also said that explaining works better than punishment when possible. I agree.
I don’t. From my own experience kids generally know when they’re screwing up and if they don’t know, pain is a good motivator to learn the rule.
>But they also are firm believers in negotiation. I am not. In some cases I will accept a little. But when it comes to rules, I don’t bend. Or at least I don’t let it be known if I do bend.
I lawyer-ed my parents to death as a kid. Made me horribly undisciplined well into my 20s.
Are the discipline exercises done by the child while in view of the public? That would matter a great deal to most people. I was okay getting a spanking a thousand years ago, in the privacy of my closed door bedroom. However, I would have been devastated to have seen people crowded around just casually watching it happen. That probably would have turned my against my parents.
I can tell from watching the first five minutes of the video that a) Gershoff is trying to refute a rather simplistic view of corporal punishment applied by parents with no insight into the human condition, nor their children’s individual personalities. b) Her use of “weasel” words such as “linked” to tie together both strong and weak conclusions makes her more advocate that researcher.
Shame and humiliation are not abuse, not in the real world. In fact, they are important tools in adjusting behavior. IN the fantasy world of someone who would call the police, shame may be abusive but in reality, it is nothing compared to the shame the child will suffer if they don’t straighten up and fly right. When nothing is shameful, everything is legitimate. We should all feel a sense of shame or guilt when doing something wrong. If not, we can and would be amazingly dangerous. Does Hillary Clinton feel shame or guilt in her wrong doing?
“I wonder how many times Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were spanked?”
Obviously either way too much or not enough.
Spanking is not beating.
Spanking is controlled, spanking is done for a valid purpose, spanking is hardly anything any parent wants to do to their kid. There is physical discipline and then there is abuse.
It is the liberal inability to understand and recognize these differences that also makes them unable to determine lethal self defense and deliberate murder.
Wrong. If the video made a claim, it is up to the video to substantiate that claim.
And quoting studies in the humanities is clearly insufficient, as a recently published survey has noted that approximately 2/3 of published results in the humanities, simply cannot be replicated.
Nice try though, troll-boy.
You conflate warming a misbehaving child’s behind with beating them?
Why, you’re just being a silly billy.
That is the great truth. If you threaten to do it, and follow thru when they dont believe you, the next time you say you will, they will believe you will.
Then just the threat of it will keep them from doing wrong. At least the averge kid.
Parents do not like to spank. Necessary discipline.
If they do, it isnt discipline. It is over the line.
Ha, ha. I did the same thing. I had my kids walk the stairs. I used to tell them, you may not end up well behaved, but you would be in shape.
I figured that it was easier on me and harder on them- kind of "self-punishment."
The kids are adults now and they both agree that they would have preferred getting spanked.
Reasonable, good post.
This is the crux of feral young men and women. No one around to discipline them.
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