Why Spanking Does Not Work | Elizabeth Gershoff and Stefan Molyneux

YouTube ^ | Published on You Tube on September 3, 2016 | Stefan Molyneux

[Arthur McGowan]

New studies have failed to find even a single positive benefit to spanking children and a near endless amount of horrible effects. Dr. Elizabeth Gershoff joins Stefan Molyneux to discuss her latest study, refuting the common pro-spanking arguments, why social justice warriors have nothing to do with less aggressive parenting, associating love with physical abuse and ending the escalating cycle of violence in relationships.

Dr. Elizabeth Gershoff is a developmental psychologist, in addition to being a Faculty Research Associate and Associate Professor of Human Development and Family Sciences at University of Texas at Austin. She recently published a revolutionary new study called “Spanking and Child Outcomes: Old Controversies and New Meta-Analyses.”

[ealgeone]

Done effectively, the mere fear of being hit will be enough to keep most children respectful, especially into adulthood.

Worked for me and my buddies. After the first one or two you get the message. No means no. Do means do.

[daniel1212]

I can tell from watching the first five minutes of the video that a) Gershoff is trying to refute a rather simplistic view of corporal punishment applied by parents with no insight into the human condition, nor their children’s individual personalities. b) Her use of “weasel” words such as “linked” to tie together both strong and weak conclusions makes her more advocate that researcher.

Indeed. reminds me of some Climate Change cooking. Based upon her conclusions, saints of the Bible, as well as those born before 1950 where (I have read) 99% parents spanked, then they should have been the most mal- adjusted children, with frustrated parents. And instead now we have touchy-feely snowflakes who demand all that offends them be shut down. Which ultimately means using the power of the state, which ultimately is physical.

[Lizavetta]

Agreed. We spanked our children only a couple times ... didn't need to more than that. We enforced what we said, calmly, and isolated them in their rooms away from their siblings when they misbehaved. And it worked. Being separated from the tribe drove them crazy. We didn't yell or berate, just put them in their room and said come out when you can get along.

It worked.

[daniel1212]

If it did not work God would not prescribe it. He does not require us to do it all the time or a lot or whatever, but it is biblical discipline. He did not make an error. I’ll believe the bible over and against a bunch of atheist sociologists.

Indeed, or misguided sppsd Christians. If spanking was bad then either the nature of man has changed, or the saints of the Bible were engaging in a practice that does not even have "a single positive benefit" "and a near endless amount of horrible effects."

[Morgana]

“Have you watched the video?”

Yes. This woman sounds like Charlie Brown’s teacher! “wah wah wah wah wah wah”

[Cvengr]

To say that Christ died a vicarious death in the place of all sinners but that not all sinners will be saved is a contradiction.

This fallacious position confuses judgment with forgiveness.

The Cross was all Judgment. Forgiveness doesn't occur until the sinner faces God, recognizing through faith in the Judgment of Christ on the Cross, that all sins have been judged, and that by confessing His sins to God through faith in that Judgment, God is now free to forgive the sinner and then give that sinner a regenerated human spirit, thereby providing salvation.

Christ was judged for all personal sins, past, present, and future in all humanity. Forgiveness of the condemned is still required prior to salvation.

[daniel1212]

The notion that a priest doesn’t believe the Scriptures would have surprised me before I came to FR.

Indeed. Another example of Catholic selective rejection of Scripture.

[.45 Long Colt]

Did you bother considering the passages I referenced or the link I included?

Your position means that God the Father poured His wrath on Christ for the sins of all the damned who died before Christ ever walked the earth. Why would Christ pay for sins of those already doomed? In your view, He punished Christ for the sins of those wiped from the Earth in the judgment of the Great Flood. In your view Jesus bore the sin of Hitler, Mao, and Stalin. The Bible never teaches any of that. It does, however, plainly teach He died for His sheep and that He actually saved them.

[Arthur McGowan]

I see another “Bible-believer” using a computer.

WHERE IN SCRIPTURE are you given permission to use a computer??? Cite me just ONE VERSE!!!

[Iscool]

The notion that beating people repeatedly is okay, provided they are too small to defend themselves, is clearly an anti-civilizational idea.

There's a reason God required bishops and pastors to be married and have children...It is so they would have the experience to deal with family issues so they could advise families legitimately...

God says spare the rod and spoil the child...But then a lot of what God says doesn't seem to mean much to Catholics...

[Iscool]

You have not, of course actually watched the video. Not enough time has elapsed.

I DID watch the video and it's a bunch of bunk...The Lady claims that when your kid writes on the wall up to 5 consecutive times, you negotiate with the kid to come up with a mutually acceptable punishment, each time...That's nuts...

What if the kid isn't interested in a punishment??? You punish him anyway...Take away his/her Xbox...

And then the kid gets angry and ignores the pen and goes after the wall with a hammer...More negotiation, eh??? Nutso...

[Iscool]

Proverbs 13:24 is one of the most misunderstood passages in the Bible.

I think most of us understand it...

[Iscool]

The parent is the shepard, full of love and wisdom, thus it is a the rod/staff of a shepard. This is how I see it and was brought up to believe.

What do you think the hook is for??? How does God chastise his children???

[same old song]

My stepson got sent home from church camp once for hitting another kid. By the time I got home from work, my husband (Army) had taught him what parade rest was, and had him doing push-ups, etc. If making your kid exercise is a crime, well... there’s a reason so many are obese these days.

I will say I agree with spanking as an on-the-spot correction, but.. not for something that’s already happened. It loses its effectiveness. Kinda like beating your dog for tearing up something yesterday.

[Elsie]

Why Spanking Does Not Work | Elizabeth Gershoff and Stefan Molyneux

Probably because you girls didn't do it right!

[Cvengr]

John 3:17 is my most favorite verse, because it doesn’t begin with “EXCEPT”.

The sins of the entire world, not just the elect.

1 Jn 2:2, “but He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for our sins only, but also for the sins of the entire world.” God the Father was satisfied with His judgment of our Lord.

[Some Fat Guy in L.A.]

Worked with me.

[.45 Long Colt]

It’s ashame you misunderstand your favorite verse, as well as 1 John 2:2. I’m guessing your mind is closed and you believe you know more than I do, so I am not wasting any more of my time. My guess, because I have been where you are, is that you’ve never studied this from another perspective. See I used to believe much as I suspect you do. I believed that way for about 40 years and was dead certain I was correct. That’s what I had been taught both in church and in my Christian university and I never questioned it. And then one day a more mature believer I barely knew confronted me over it. What started as a gentle rebuke changed my life. Short of salvation, it’s the best thing that ever happened to me. By the way, we both believe in a limited atonement. The difference is I limit it quantitatively (those for whom He died), but you limit it qualitatively (what He actually accomplished).

If you want to know what the Bible actually teaches on this point, here are a couple of links.

http://www.reformationtheology.com/2007/11/understanding_1_john_22.php

https://www.gty.org/resources/pdf/sermons/62-10

[TheGunny]

Agree to disagree.

[Cvengr]

One position is the Bible teaches anything except what 1 Jn 2:2 says it teaches.

Maybe the other verses used to claim 1Jn 2:2 doesn’t refer to the whole world are better understood in context with 1Jn 2:2.

Maybe limited atonement arrogantly omits the impersonal love of God for the whole world and confuses judgment with forgiveness. Unbelievers still are condemned, but God is larger than limiting His atonement. Assuming God limits His atonement manifests a lack of faith in what Christ performed on the Cross.

Those who don’t believe Christ died on the Cross for the sins of the whole world, really don’t have faith in Christ.

His sacrifice was for all who were dead from sin in obedience to the perfect righteousness and grace of God the Father.

This doesn’t preclude the call of the Father. It is simply a strategic victory over sin and death.