Who Will Replace the Beretta M9 as the Official U.S. Army Sidearm? 20 Contenders Become 3

The Motly Fool ^

[PJammers]

Whatever the choice, it will be in 9MM. That Rules out the FN 5 seven.

[Brookhaven]

The CZ P-01 is a variant of the CZ-75 design.

I believe the P-07 is the only polymer design they make at the moment. The reviews I have seen of it are not good as to the fit and finish.

They had to discontinue the polymer version of the Rami, because of cracking problems.

I suspect the CZ “rail inside the frame” design may have some disadvantages when it comes to polymer frames. Having the rail on the outside of the frame probably provides some extra support/stability to the polymer frame.

[louie2]

You say a pistol has a “left” expectancy...Does that mean it is more accurate when pointed at someone from the political left?

[CodeToad]

“Unfortunately the new gun will be picked for the same reason as the Beretta... political pull.”

Yep. Interest in this affair isn’t about the “best gun”. It will only answer who has the most political clout.

[CodeToad]

“Leave a polymer frame “

Sorry, but poly guns have steel slides and innards.

[Gunner TLW]

Sir, I do believe that everyone is missing a very important point! Why does the US Armed Forces need a NEW pistol? Can anyone describe an event where a Soldier, Marine, Sailor, Airman has actually used a Pistol in Combat. With multiple combat deployments I know of ZERO. The M9, although I personally hate the thing, is just as capable, while being toted around on the hip, as any other sidearm.
Why do we allow the DOD to get away with this foolishness. This is not an issue of National Security or safety. The pistol is a weapon of last resort and serves to give the Officers, Senior NCO, pilots and Technicians a means to defend themselves. USSOCOM, the only guys that actually ma use the pistol, already have a different gun. This is just wasted money on a sham requirement. In 15 years of War, nobody has required the pistol. Just as soon as a “Pistol Bearer” is sent outside the wire, they grab an M4-M16A4. I could get interested IF they were talking about a Service Rifle.

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

A rather liberal friend of mine was given a 1911 by his Dad in that condition...a little darker, but that could be the photo lighting. He’s never shot it, it’s in simply glorious condition, bone stock, rust free. Handsome, handsome gun. It’s a 1943 Union Switch & Signal.

[DarthVader]

True and you can go 9-mm. 40 S&W, .357 Sig and .45 ACP with it in both a full size and carry configurations.

[Eagles6]

They are no doubt going to stick with 9mm for NATO capability.

That said, the FBI just completed a study on handgun rounds. With modern hollowpoint projectiles coroners and OR personnel could not tell the wound track of a 9mm from a .45 ACP and they found no discernible difference in wound ballistics, stopping power or terminal performance.

Hence the feds and a lot of PD are moving back to 9mm.

[Mike Darancette]

That a gun that feels like a gun when you hold it in your hand.

[Joe 6-pack]

When the SAS was looking to replace the Hi-Powers as their standard sidearm in the early 90’s, rumor has it that the rank and file overwhelmingly preferred the CZ-75, but the MOD would not go with a manufacturer that had only recently come out from under the Soviet bloc. I have a 75B (in .40) on my (right) nightstand and it’s my SHTF sidearm of choice for a number of reasons.

[Redcitizen]

Can anyone describe an event where a Soldier, Marine, Sailor, Airman has actually used a Pistol in Combat.

In a fire fight in a house in Fallujah, although wounded by seven 7.62×39mm rounds and hit by more than 43 pieces of hot fragmentation from a grenade while using his body to shield an injured fellow Marine, Kasal refused to quit fighting and is credited with saving the lives of several Marines during the U.S. assault on insurgent strongholds in Fallujah in November 2004. By the time he was carried out of the house by LCpl Chris Marquez and LCpl Dan Shaffer, Kasal had lost approximately 60 percent of his blood.[1] The photograph of Kasal, taken by photographer Lucian Read — blood-soaked and still holding his M9 pistol and KA-Bar fighting knife — being helped from the building by fellow Marines, has become one of the iconic pictures of the war. - Wikipedia

Looks to me like then First Seargeant Kasal was using his M9.

[Big Red Badger]

Great Shot!

[Brookhaven]

There’s is nothing wrong with a polymer gun from a durability standpoint. They have proven to last at least a half century without problems.

Whether they will last 100 years like some metal guns is a question. But let’s be honest here, how many people are packing 100 year old guns for their everyday carry?

The problem I do have with polymer guns is the recoil. A metal gun (due to the weight) has less recoil, and thus is easier to shoot.

This puts the Army in a catch-22. I’m sure they are thinking about a lighter polymer gun so women can carry it more easily, but women will have a harder time shooting it.

Personally, the only time I would look at a polymer gun is for concealed carry, where weight and size is a big deal. In other situations (home defense, gun in car, etc...) I think a metal frame is the better option. But, I’m not the military.

[Brookhaven]

It will be a 9mm. They will be compatible with NATO rounds.

From my research, the best mix of stopping power and capacity is the 10mm round. I believe the FBI adopted it, then had to abandon it, because the FEMALE agents couldn’t handle the recoil.

[CodeToad]

I suspect the Army is getting a 9mm, so a poly is just fine for that. I just hope they get one without a “trigger safety”.

[Brookhaven]

It will, without doubt, have a thumb safety.

If by trigger safety you mean the Glock style lever in the middle of the trigger. I agree, but I’m not against safeties in general.

The 1911 has both a thumb safety and a backstrap safety. I’ve seen people say how the love the 1911 in one sentence, then in the next say how they hate guns with safeties. Huh?

[Gunner TLW]

Sir, I spent my last seven years in the Corps as the Division Gunner for 2nd Marine Division. As a Marine Gunner, CWO5, my job was to advise the Commander on all aspects of training and employment of Infantry Weapons. Not a week would pass without a Commander or Senior NCO inquiring about the need to replace the M9. Everyone wanted a different sidearm and strongly preferred a 45 caliber. The CG asked me to do a study IOT determine a way-ahead. The findings were overwhelming: We simply could not find where numbers of Marines had used a pistol in combat nor were there any reports of a failure with the M9 in training or combat.

I’m well aware of the heroics of 1stSgt Kasal!

MARSOC plowed ahead and purchased the MEU(SOC) 45 only to now prefer the Glock. A very good friend was at the USSOCOM brief when the question of a new pistol was raised. The USSOCOM SgtMaj had anticipated the request and had commissioned a study to determine the number of times a Special Operator had used his sidearm in Combat and had their been a failure. Their study mirrored ours: In 14 years of conflict only a couple of times had the sidearm been used and zero failures of the weapons system.

The US Army is the Program Manager for Infantry Weapons, Rifles and Pistols. The US Marines are NOT asking for another weapon but if the Army changes we will most likely be part of that buy.

Here is the Bottom Line: Why are we wasting valuable resources for a new system that is rarely used with zero failures. Can we afford that?

Terry L Walker
CWO5
Marine Gunner
USMC Retired

[Redcitizen]

Thank you for your service and for sharing your experience with the use of a pistol in the military. If the M9 works well enough, then we should keep it. I’m familiar with it and so far, I do not have any complaints about my civilian 92FS.

First Sergeant Kasal was the one example that sprang to mind so that’s why I posted it.

I am of the opinion the pistol search is mainly about lining someone’s pockets with lucrative pay-offs.

[Big Red Badger]

1911 vs .357,