Posted on 05/07/2016 7:34:23 PM PDT by PinkChampagneonIce
Dear Freeper Preppers:
I have tried to find answers to these questions, and just haven't had much luck. Freepers are always incredibly knowledgeable, so I thought I would throw this out for general comment.
I live somewhat off the grid, in that I live with a bare minimum of electrical appliances. I have a small, motel-sized refrigerator. Its temperature varies. It is so small, that the thermometer will indicate a 5 degree reduction in temperature if I just open the door. During the winter, it is fairly easy to keep it below 40. During the summer, that becomes a challenge. There are many days when the temperature is high that it remains at 45 or so.
The conventional wisdom is that if the temperature rises about 40 the bacteria, germs, microbes, whatever, start growing in food and make it unsafe to eat. As anyone who has lived as I do knows, that is simply not true. For example, sometimes I will buy a pre-cooked rotisserie chicken at the market. It is hot when I buy it, and warm when I put it in the refrigerator. Even if the refrigerator thermometer is showing 45 degrees, the chicken doesn’t automatically “spoil.” If it is in a sealed container/packaging, it is good for at least three days, even though it is chicken, which is considered notoriously likely to spoil. After the three days, I can still use it if I put in in a soup or stew which is boiled for more than 10-15 minutes. I can also refrigerate leftovers for at least 2-3 days without any harmful effects. So just because something is stored below 40 degrees does not necessarily mean that it has spoiled or is dangerous.
Before refrigeration, people used ice boxes. They were insulated, and cooled with blocks of ice. Having done this when I was young on camping trips, I sincerely doubt they maintained a temperature below 40 degrees. Although some people suffered from “summer sickness” from spoiled food, people weren’t dropping like flies. Obviously, some foods are more likely to spoil in a way that causes sickness than others, although this is completely obscured by the modern warnings that anything cooled about 40 degrees is unsafe. I know that in Great Britain, people do not refrigerate items which we are told MUST be refrigerated – for example, jams, mayonnaise, etc. My understanding is that in medieval times spices were prized because they made “tainted” meat palatable.
And so, to my question. For those who have lived off the grid, or in less developed countries, do you have any other guidelines than those which say everything must be cooled below 40 degrees? In your experience, which foods spoil the fastest, and in the most dangerous fashion? Which spoil but are just nasty, not life threatening? In an emergency situation, which foods should be absolutely avoided after a certain time at a certain temperature, and which can be worked with by boiling for 10-15 minutes or charring over an open fire. When is “tainted” meat OK to eat, and when will it kill you?
I’m posting this fairly late in the evening. I’m going to bed, so I won’t be replying to this thread until tomorrow or Monday. I really appreciate your input on this topic.
See #29
Imho of course.
5.56mm
Most things ‘spoil’ because they become oxygenated, ( exposed to too much oxygen, ). For example, cheese will last longer if placed in an air-tight container. Plastic bags, tightly wrapped will make things last longer.
Grammy has it right about bacterial growth !
Why can you age meat without cooking , smoking , or salting ? Because it is in a controlled environment of heat, humidity, and specified length of time .
I grew up without electricity- very small propane fridge and general rules my mother taught me: Things we were extra careful about- raw hamburger, raw chicken, milk and soft cheese spoil fast if not kept properly, we didn’t try to keep them at all in the summer. Larger cuts of beef don’t spoil as fast. Ham was ok, fry it before eating after the first few days. If you use your eggs pretty soon it is not critical for them to be as cold as they say. Hard cheeses were pretty good to keep. Cooked chicken and pork and other meats weren’t bad to spoil.
In the summer we ate a lot of canned meat. A lot of things she only made enough for the meal we didn’t try to keep like salad dressing, mayo, cole slaw dressing from scratch and only enough for the meal. She used canned milk or powdered milk we didn’t keep milk.
Beans- pinto beans or cowboy beans we got chilled on the porch at night and mother would heat them for supper only- boiling them for a while before we ate them. She said you had to boil them for a while every day and then be able to chill them at night for them to keep for several days.
Do you know if the propane appliances can be modified to run on natural gas ?
Get a couple of boxes of Bisquick and some cheap protein powder. Start a campfire, mix the Bisquick and protein powder with water, put a glob on a stick like a marshmallow, and roast it in the fire. Boom- protein biscuits. You can even get fancy and drizzle some yogurt in it so it’s like honey cakes from lord of the a Rings. You can probably get 6 months of food on 1 shelf for under 100 bucks and not worry about storage temps.
It’s true that most bacteria stop reproducing at fridge temps.
But there are a few - notably listeria - that are happy as clams at around 40 degrees F.
Agreed, I don’t eat a lot of pork...even though it can be produced in an almost germ free manner....and my Grandparents salted it and I believe they ate a lot of pork.
but..
In the 1970’s there was a case of a family purchasing a pig to be slaughtered...and packaged...
The pig had eaten an amount of mercury coated seed meant for planting...
The mercury did not kill the pig but it did great damage to the family that ate the pigs flesh.
This describes several specific bacteria that are not the “friendly” kind, in regard to raw meat storage:
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/shared/PDF/How_Temperatures_Affect_Food.pdf
That is what aged beef is and until it actually spoils the more aged it is the better the flavor and the more tender. To properly age beef you need a place to hang it that has really cold constant temperature at near freezing but not quite. Properly aging and storage can be a little different.
We stored it without a real meat cooler room though when I was growing up. You can’t just hang it anywhere though, you have to have a cold place to hang it. We only dealt with a quarter at a time, when we butchered the meat was shared between 4 families. We hung it on a screen porch at night and it would be really chilled by early morning. By sunup we wrapped it in a tarp and put it under the bed in the coolest bedroom. We only heated the main part of the house, so bedrooms were pretty cool. We only cut off what we were cooking for supper, we didn’t unwrap the tarp during the day. The smaller you cut meat the quicker it spoils, so if we wanted hamburger we ground it just for that meal. We did not butcher in the summer because we could not get it chilled enough at night. If the temperature was warmer than normal for a couple days in the winter my mom would bone the meat and cook it so it would not spoil.
Sounds like a pain but it is a routine like a lot of other things and when you get used to doing it, not hard.
He buys many boxes of different type cereal so he wouldn't get tired of just one kind. And, he buys instant milk. I know from experimenting and doing it in an emergency, that adding some powdered creamer to instant milk makes it thicker and taste like regular milk.
When buying instant milk, get the box with 1 qt. packages inside. If you buy a box with bulk instant and humidity get in the box it will turn into a brick, so get the boxes with packages inside. The cheapest price will be at Walmart as well as the cereal will be the cheapest there, too.
Now, think about how many types cereal there are. Look at those at the grocery and you see zillions of types. You wouldn't get bored with all those choices. They don't need refrigeration and will last a super long time. You will use a quart of instant milk before it needs refrigeration and/or you can make less than a quart at a time, just make the amount you will use for that meal.
If you have water, multiple boxed cereals, instant milk and powdered creamer, you can live a very long time.
For meat, I have canned meat. There is not a huge amount in a can so you will use it up before it needs refrigeration and that includes canned chicken. When I was into prepping years ago, I called the Hormel company. They said if the can seal isn't broken, the meat will last forever in the can.
At some time, after I started prepping, the govn. made companies put an expiration date on cans so the company was forced to put a date on. You will see a “best by” date which means the product will be at its ultimate best taste by that date but it does not mean the product is not good after that date. Due to what Hormel told me personally, their meat is good to eat regardless of the date put on there. Of course, if the can integrity is gone, like a crack in the can, do not eat it.
I was taught that fresh eggs do not need refrigerated for several days if the storage temperature is not warm. We kept eggs on the screen porch, not in the kitchen. We just wiped off the fresh eggs when we gathered them and my mother washed them right before use.
Modern store eggs are washed before they leave the farm which washes off the protective coating the shells have so they do need to be refrigerated.
Yes we made jerky, dried lots of things. Canned of course, and had root cellar to keep things cool. People did not used to keep their houses as warm so many things could just stay on the table or counter that would spoil in a warmer house.
Floating just means it is an older egg, not always bad. Floaters need to be broken one at a time into a dish to check them though. If it looks fine, no odor, and the yolk stands up does not break or flatten when put in the dish it is ok. We did this with every egg though and didn’t bother to see if they floated or not because chickens can hide eggs on you so some you gather may not be as fresh as you think!
“I would be concerned with that seaping through the shell into the egg.”
Not an issue. This is the way our grandparents preserved eggs. It basically deposits a layer of glass on the shell that seals all the pores.
You are right about that! That is why people used to have glass refrigerator dishes and they even had glass lids.
If you’re in a dry area the evaporation keeps it cool. People used to come here from California to buy green chile by the pick-up load and they covered it with gunny sacks and wet them regularly on the trip home and it was just like it was refrigerated.
We don’t need quite as much meat as we habitually eat.
Fang & I have stored quite a bit of canned dehydrated food,
dried beans, peas & lentils, dried fruits & a bit of
regular canned goods (we keep it rotated as we’ve been
storing food ever since back in Y2K). We have a fairly
small organic garden, also fruit trees, grape vines,
mostly raise a few tomatoes, strawberries, pears & this
& that. We stored up paper products; but have mostly used
those up over time. Also vacuum sealed garden seeds. -
Don’t let storage get you down. Just chip away at it a
little every day or every week. Read other’s suggestions
& make lists of what you need as you go. - Enjoy your
life & do not let food storage become a burden. (People
used to cook their pork sausage patties & cover them
with the sausage grease from cooking.) Also, use your
sense of smell to determine if it’s safe to eat certain
foods. - We also cook on the woodstove during the winter.
I grew up on dried beans, potatoes & cornbread. - Give it
due attention & you won’t starve. - We also have a well
for our water source. It has sulfur; but we have gotten
used to it & it has diluted some.
Mineral oil will not go rancid.
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