Windows 10 Worst Secret Spins Out Of Control - Forbes (Microsoft spying cannot be disabled)

Forbes ^ | 02/09/2016 | Gordon Kelly

[MarchonDC09122009]

Windows 10 Worst Secret Spins Out Of Control - Forbes

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/02/09/windows-10-data-tracking-spying-levels/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix#1b42bfac7aa9

Back in November Microsoft confirmed Windows 10’s worst kept secret: its extensive telemetry (or ‘spying’ as it has been labelled) cannot be stopped. What no-one realised until now, however, is just how staggering the extent of this tracking really is… 

Blowing the lid on it this week is Voat user CheesusCrust whose extensive investigation found 

*Windows 10 contacts Microsoft to report data thousands of times per day. 

And the kicker? 

*This happens after choosing a custom Windows 10 installation and disabling all three pages of tracking options which are all enabled by default.*...

[roadcat]

I've got a 21" iMac on my desk, and a MacMini hooked up to my 55" HDTV and home theater for sound, in the family room.

Similar here, a MacMini streams via Apple TV to my big screen and surround sound in the family room, pulling movies from a network drive. Pretty much problem free, except for the authorizing nonsense going back to Apple. TunesKit for Mac took care of that, no bouncing back to Apple for viewing. I imagine there is something similar for Windows to keep them from seeing what you use.

[Neidermeyer]

The way to kill this is to sue them ... They impose a unilateral contract upon you that you must “accept” in order for you to run your business. You need to impose a unilateral contract on Microsoft. They will ignore you... Pick the venue wisely... and win.

[driftdiver]

How about hipaa data. They have to comply by law whether or not they sign an agreement with me.

[dayglored]

Windows 10 expose... PING!

You can find all the Windows Ping list threads with FR search: just search on keyword "windowspinglist".

Thanks to Army Air Corps for the ping!!

NOTE: There are some questions about the method used as the basis for this research, so read carefully and critically...

[CedarDave]

The question I have is that if MS does call home thousands of times per day with Windows 10, how many times does it do the same with Win 7, 8 and 8.1? Is it just Win 10 that can’t be shut down or do the other older operating systems circumvent the privacy options too?

[Still Thinking]

But if the OS is cut off from chatting with MS, how’s it going to know the new IP’s to use? I believe they’re hard-coded stop as nor to rely on DNS.

[dennisw]

Do you know how difficult it is going to be to install Windows 7 and Linux (Mint) on Skylake and other future INTEL and AMD processors, chipsets and motherboards?

I already read that Skylake which is here now..... you cannot install windoze 7 on it. The UEFI bios prevents it

[dennisw]

For home assembled computers obviously and for loading OS of your choice onto laptops you buy,

[dayglored]

This is true — there was a thread on this about a week ago. But it’s hard for me to believe it will stay that way. It’s so completely crazy and restrictive.

[dennisw]

Does Linux also get screwed by Skylake and future Intel processors?

[dennisw]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3385042/posts

With no warning, Microsoft stops use of Windows 7 & 8.1 on new PCs. How dumb is that?
Computer World ^ | Jan 17, 2016 11:15 AM PT | Richi Jennings

Posted on 1/18/2016, 12:37:25 AM by Olog-hai

Microsoft made this totally stupid change to its Windows support policy. With no notice, older versions of Windows lose support on the latest PC hardware.

Yep, that’s right: You can’t run Windows 7 or 8.1 on Skylake CPUs (or later). There’s a woolly, limited get-out-of-jail-free card for a short while, but this is just the latest irritating Microsoft scheme to get everyone onto Windows 10.

The way it’s always been in the past is that enterprises could buy today’s hardware, but put their current image on it, only upgrading when it made sense. But with this move, Microsoft changes everything — and with precisely zero warning.

I’d be raising merry hell if I were an IT manager. What is Redmond thinking? ...

[dennisw]

Brevity: « Headers » | Text

• Microsoft cuts short support for downgraded Windows Skylake PCs

  1/24/2016, 9:59:32 PM · by Utilizer · 22 replies iTnews ^ | Jan 25 2016 10:00AM (AUS) | Juha Saarinen

• Windows 10 will only work on newest PCs, says Microsoft

  1/19/2016, 12:44:45 AM · by Olog-hai · 27 replies Fox News ^ | January 18, 2016 | Brooke Crothers

• With no warning, Microsoft stops use of Windows 7 & 8.1 on new PCs. How dumb is that?

  1/18/2016, 12:37:25 AM · by Olog-hai · 49 replies Computer World ^ | Jan 17, 2016 11:15 AM PT | Richi Jennings

• Microsoft says new processors will only work with Windows 10 (starting with Skylake)

  1/17/2016, 9:38:49 AM · by dayglored · 93 replies The Verge ^ | Jan 16, 2016 | Dante D'Orazio

[dennisw]

Skylake users given 18 months to upgrade to Windows 10

And next generation processors, including Intel's Kaby Lake, won't be supported in old Windows.

by Peter Bright - Jan 15, 2016 7:42pm EST

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556 Intel Skylake die shot.Intel

If you own a system with an Intel 6th generation Core processor—more memorably known as Skylake—and run Windows 7 or Windows 8.1, you'll have to think about upgrading to Windows 10 within the next 18 months. Microsoft announced today that after July 17, 2017, only the "most critical" security fixes will be released for those platforms and those fixes will only be made available if they don't "risk the reliability or compatibility" of Windows 7 and 8.1 on other (non-Skylake) systems.

The full range of compatibility and security fixes will be published for non-Skylake machines for Windows 7 until January 14 2020, and for Windows 8.1 until January 10 2023.

Next generation processors, including Intel's "Kaby Lake", Qualcomm's 8996 (branded as Snapdragon 820), and AMD's "Bristol Ridge" APUs (which will use the company's Excavator architecture, not its brand new Zen arch) will only be supported on Windows 10. Going forward, the company says that using the latest generation processors will always require the latest generation operating system.

Microsoft provided PC World a short list of approved devices that use Skylake processors that will continue to be supported during the 18 month window when running Windows 7 or 8.1. Those systems are: Dell Latitude 12, Dell Latitude 13 7000 Ultrabook, Dell XPS 13, HP EliteBook Folio, HP EliteBook 1040 G3, Lenovo ThinkPad T460s, Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon, and Lenovo ThinkPad P70. In conjunction with the system builders, Microsoft will test those systems with Windows 7 and 8.1 to ensure that drivers and operating system fixes work as expected.

The company's official reason for this change is a little opaque:

At the same time, we know many of these customers continue to rely on Windows 7 for its well understood reliability and compatibility. Windows 7 was designed nearly 10 years ago before any x86/x64 SOCs existed. For Windows 7 to run on any modern silicon, device drivers and firmware need to emulate Windows 7's expectations for interrupt processing, bus support, and power states—which is challenging for WiFi [sic], graphics, security, and more. As partners make customizations to legacy device drivers, services, and firmware settings, customers are likely to see regressions with Windows 7 ongoing servicing.

It's not entirely clear what hardware changes are really motivating this. Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 are very similar as far as their hardware requirements around "interrupt processing, bus support, and power states" go. That said, modern hardware has certainly shaken things up quite a bit. Skylake, for example, has a certain degree of autonomous power management, allowing the chip to respond more quickly to changing demands than the operating system can. It's believable that wedding these new hardware features with old software is time-consuming and complex. Similarly, platform features such as USB Type-C, especially with Thunderbolt 3, includes all manner of complexity that Windows 7 was never built for.

It's also not entirely clear why Microsoft is making the decision; this burden seems like something that the hardware companies can make decisions about themselves. Intel, for example, makes such decisions when developing its Wi-Fi drivers. The very latest hardware, the Wireless-AC 8260 controller drops support for the now unsupported Windows 8, and drops 32-bit support for both Windows 8.1 and Windows 10.

Industry analyst Patrick Moorhead of Moor Insights & Strategy suggests that for this reason the move may prove popular with the hardware companies. Cutting off support for old software when releasing new hardware is rarely popular, even though this legacy support has a substantial cost for hardware companies, with Moorhead suggesting that as much as a third of hardware company resources were spent on this. With Microsoft making the decision, it shifts the blame from any individual hardware, allowing the hardware companies to reap the savings, while Microsoft shoulders the blame.

Microsoft's Terry Myerson, Executive Vice President, Windows and Devices Group, was a little less direct about this, but made similar implications. He told us that change was driven by a desire to preserve quality. Ensuring high quality support for Skylake on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 took a "large investment," and future processor innovations will demand continued investment. Microsoft sees itself as responsible for the ongoing system quality of Windows systems—even though parts of the Windows experience is dependent on third-party contributions—and spending resources to update old operating systems makes that quality hard to achieve. Tying the newest silicon to the newest platform greatly reduces this complexity for the entire PC ecosystem.

This may well prove awkward for enterprise customers. Organizations that have standardized on, for example, Windows 7 have long been able to take advantage of the "downgrade rights" included in certain Windows licenses, so that they can stick with the old operating systems in standardized deployments, even as they buy new hardware. Windows 10 won't remove those downgrade rights, but there will be far fewer guarantees that old Windows will work correctly on new hardware. The named systems above are intended as a kind of stepping stone. They will provide well-tested experience when running the old operating systems. They won't do so indefinitely, but the limits of their full support are clearly defined.

[dennisw]

I see nothing on the internet about Skylake onward screwing around with Linux installations

[dayglored]

> I see nothing on the internet about Skylake onward screwing around with Linux installations

Depends on how one interprets the news... It could “only” mean that advanced features of Skylake are unused by Win7/8, in which case who cares. It could mean that Skylake processors refuse to run Win7/8, which is how I tend to interpret it. Or it could mean the motherboards are set up such that they only support Win10 and refuse to run anything else, even Linux.

We’ll have to see....

[TChad]

Here's an article very critical of the Forbes report:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/when-it-comes-to-windows-10-privacy-dont-trust-amateur-analysts/

From the link:

Another day, another sensational report from Forbes. Oh my goodness, is Windows 10 really "phoning home" thousands of times a day? Nope. In fact, anyone who has even a basic understanding of how networks work should cringe at this shoddy report.

[MarchonDC09122009]

TChad, there appears to be an update to this story indicating Microsoft has responded they are planning to offer Windows 10 Enterprise edition system administrators full control over network telemetry.

Microsoft Upgrades Windows 10 Powers Of Control - Forbes

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/02/11/microsoft-makes-windows-10-u-turn/#2f99c0fd3974

I took this data to Microsoft and it declined to comment, but now the company has had a change of heart.  

Contacting me again a Microsoft spokesperson explained the company now wanted to speak about the issue. *In short: Microsoft is taking action. It has decided to release updates “later this year” which will enable users to fully control all background telemetry and data tracking and, if desired, disable it completely. Microsoft also asked me to stress that disabling these background operations is something it would “strongly recommend against”.*

[TChad]

If that’s accurate, it’s good news, but a little late. I suspect that the Win 10 rollout has already done considerable damage to Microsoft’s reputation.

[Bob434]

Folks, there’s a program called spybot anti beacon (from the company that brigns you spybot search and destroy)- to see it I naction head to this video on youtube- it’s longish, around 35 minutes or so- but worth the watch-

Windows 10 is absolutely horrible! Even after disabling spyware features, after a FORCED windows update, they reactivate some spyware features that you disabled!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1kGMCfb2xw

[r_barton]

The government is going to read your stuff no matter what. But at least we should keep the private companies out of it.