Posted on 11/19/2015 9:26:06 AM PST by US Navy Vet
Please put your comments below...
I suspect if Lincoln or Kennedy hadn't been assassinated, they'd just have succumbed to the inertia and mess of politics. They'd grow frustrated at their inability to do what they wanted to do and the country would grow frustrated with them.
Lincoln would be stuck between those who wanted major changes in the South and those who didn't. It would be hard to please either camp and impossible to satisfy both. Lincoln wouldn't have been as disastrous as Andrew Johnson, but he would have faced immense difficulties and the strain alone might well have killed him.
Similarly, Kennedy would have some achievements but wouldn't have been able to pass all the legislation that LBJ did. He would have gone into Vietnam and stayed, but wouldn't have committed as many men or as much money as Johnson did. The country would grow sick of him, though not as much as the did with Johnson. Whether his East Coast liberal base would stick with him or desert him is harder to say.
If you're interested in stuff like this, Jeff Greenfield does a lot of counterfactual history. I'm not really impressed. Basically, the idea is that if something in politics didn't happen when it did, it would have happened four or eight years later.
What would happen when the conservative VP became POTUS in 1988? It might not have happened. There was no guarantee such a person would win the presidential race -- especially if somebody other than Dukakis ran against him -- and no guarantee he'd even win the nomination. Probably Bush ran a stronger campaign than Kemp or Laxalt or some other conservative alternative would have.
But of course, if Reagan had picked a conservative VP who went on to run for president, we probably wouldn't think of that politician as a conservative at all. Either he'd lose and be a loser who wasn't conservative enough. Or he'd win and not be a conservative because of all the compromises he'd have to make to win and govern (and because he wasn't Ronald Reagan).
Would that have been so bad, in light of what happened after the war?
A lot of people do. If the Germans had someone who knew what he was doing directing the German side of the Battle of Britain, the Germans would have continued bombing the military infrastructure to include the radar towers. Sooner or later they would have found out how important the towers were.
Europe would all be speaking German.
Would that have been so bad, in light of what happened after the war?
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Very bad. The German people don’t think for themselves.
Just as bad was not listening to Patton about Russia, and why the hell did Eisenhower let Russia take Berlin? I blame the wussies even then. Patton or MacArthur should have been president after the war, not Anglophile wussie in chief, Eisenhower.
But was it our business and who was actually the “right” side? Or was anyone?
We, and all countries that valued Freedom from oppression were THE RIGHT SIDE. Simply regarding The Holocaust is enough for any right minded person to clearly see what would have happened if Germany won. If that isn’t enough, look at Poland, look at Czechoslovakia.
There is absolutely NO question in my mind that WE were the RIGHT side, the Allies HAD to WIN to preserve FREEDOM for Humanity. Now we are faced with Islam and must defeat it, just as surely. There is no going back. The battle has been engaged for decencies. Only ignorant, unlearned people, will deny it.
Just want to make sure you understand, I was referring to WWI, not WWII.
I’m sure the Germans under the Kaiser were no saints, but it couldn’t have been anything like what it was under the Nazis.
Animal House
Thank you, I had understood you were speaking of WWII. The greatest problem with the aftermath of WW I is that the terms of the Armistice were not enforced. Germany ALWAYS intended to possess France. The outcome of the Franco Prussian War of 1870, set the course for the next generations. Alsace and Lorraine were French, lost to Germany in the Treaty of Frankfurt, but everything was done, including outlawing the speaking of French, after the war, to make the region’s people into Germans. Take one instance, the abandonment of the relatively new train station in Metz and the building of a new train station, capable of moving the Kaiser’s troops to Russia in 24 hours, men, horses, bag and baggage. I think it was 24, 000 troops in 24 hours together with their horses....I may be off a little, but not much. This preceded the 1st W.W. Metz had always been a Military center and is a fascinating place to visit with thousands of years of history. It has always been a hot spot!
France did not intend to be German, either then or now. Expect Merkel’s welcome of tens of thousands of “refugees” to cause HUGE problems with France....at least with the French people....and certainly with her own people. Just wait and see.....and NO, the Kaiser would not have been any better.....certainly not for the French! Between the two cultures, I’ll take the French any day of the week and twice on Sunday!
Sooner or later they would have found out how important the towers were.
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The problem for the Germans was that by the time they found out about the RADAR towers, the Allies had ENIGMA....which, by the way, was turned over by the Poles to the French who turned it over to the Brits. Probably the best kept secret in world history was the Germans not knowing we had ENIGMA.
“Similarly, Ultra’s role in the Battle of Britain was limited: better grade intelligence came from prisoners, captured documents and improved air reconnaissance.” p I didn’t think that Enigma had much of a role in BoB or later air campaign.
Frankly, I would agree with you on the B of B. I don’t remember any significant use of Ultra until prior to the Second El Alamein. It was definitely a crucial factor in the British Navy’s success against the Italian resupply of Rommel in Africa. Of course by then, Hitler had pulled much of Rommel’s strength by depleting his air strength and shifting other supply factors towards the Eastern Front. Then along came Operation Torch and the USA was now in the game. I’d say the Mediterranean remained the key area of usefulness for the Allies of having broken the Enigma.....thanks to the Poles and French....the War’s best kept secret.....and perhaps the Atlantic campaign as well.
i don’t remember much of a roll at all for Enigma before
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