What’s Safer From Hackers: A PC or a Mac?

Yahoo! ^ | August 7, 2015 | Sean Captain

[Leaning Right]

Apple’s vaunted reputation for safety and security has taken some hits recently. Just this week came news of DYLD_PRINT_TO_FILE — a bug in Apple’s OS X operating system that has allowed a malicious program to take complete control of Macs.

*snip*

When it comes to security flaws, Windows and OS X are now about tied, says Morey Haber, VP of technology at corporate security software maker BeyondTrust.

[rlmorel]

This is probably more appropriate...:)

[rlmorel]

Exactly. But that fact, and the debate that there may be relative advantages or disadvantages are not mutually exclusive!

[roamer_1]

Literally, a PC running Linux. If you want safe, that’s where the bar is truly set.

[Swordmaker]

If the latest windows 10 vs latest OS X then Windows 10 has less vulnerabilities as of today.

Are you certain? OS X is a package of UNIX™ utilities that are included with it and the vulnerabilities attributed to OS X include all of the vulnerabilities of those utilities as well.

Windows 10 has been getting a lot of bad press lately for flaws. . . Perhaps it is solid, but it has yet to be really tested by fire in the wild by millions of idiots using it. Until it passes the idiot test, it really cannot be said to be idiot proof. It's the same for each new version of OS X and iOS. What smart programmers may THINK they've made bullet proof seldom survives contact with idiots.

[dayglored]

> Literally, a PC running Linux. If you want safe, that’s where the bar is truly set.

For a complete user system, I'd agree -- that's one reason Linux is so popular in the server crowd as well.

But I might suggest that an open-source (GNU, etc.) desktop system built over BSD Unix is at least as secure from hackers as Linux. The difficulty with plain BSD as a user platform is the much smaller base of people running plain BSD user desktop systems, even compared to Linux.

And while OS X is built on a BSD base, the vulnerabilities I'm aware of on Macs are due to the upper support/user/application layers, not the core BSD operating system. (If somebody knows different, please comment.)

[for-q-clinton]

I didn’t say it’s idiot proof. I never did and never will.

Hell I had someone call me saying they are from windows and wanted me to to a team share so they could fix my computer issues that is generating errors on the master server.

I kept the guy on the phone for a long time and messed with him, but I guarantee you that it works for all users. In fact, I said I have an Mac and he said that’s fine he can fix that. I said Oh wait I’m going to use my Linux box and once again...he is fine. Team viewer works for all those OSes so all they need is a couple idiots to clean out their bank accounts.

[dayglored]

> ...seldom survives contact with idiots

It doesn't even require "idiots" per se -- just clueless users who don't bother to learn even the basic rules of safety on the internet.

I've sometimes thought that operating a computer on the internet should require testing and a license, similar to automobiles and the public highways.

Except that of course the government would own that process and there goes our liberty. So,.... never mind that thought. :-)

[House Atreides]

“...When it comes to security flaws, Windows and OS X are now about tied, says Morey Haber...”
*****************************************************************************************************
Sure, we believe you Morey...just like we believe that Tibet and China are “about tied”.

[dayglored]

> Nothing is immune. There really is no debate. Only stupid people think X platform is, and those people are the careless ones that get hacked because they leave every door and “window” open while they go on a 3 month vacation.

That's the truth... nothing is immune. Unfortunately, since that truth doesn't sell computers or generate page hits, we are subjected to a lot of [ahem] less-than-truth...

[Swordmaker]

So the Zero day attack deal is pretty bad then right? It sounds like some stuff I saw on windows years ago. Get a user to click and link and wammo. Take over a website and load your payload and have users visit a “good” site and wammo. Or am I not understanding that one properly?

A zero day vulnerability is merely a vulnerability. . . whether it is exploitable or not is another matter. A Zero Day EXPLOIT is always a pretty bad deal. . . but on a Mac it is not too serious. Why? Because the avenues of vector to transmit anything to more Macs are closed tight. The Zero Day's are pretty limited to people who may encounter it by downloading something on the Internet, a drive-by malicious website, a Malicious advertising with a Java Script, etc. Basically they are all Trojans. . . or they require a user to be running in a user mode that is turned off on Macs by default called ROOT which is one level above the Administrator level. . . so that it does not even require permission to be installed.

That is what is required for a current ZERO day that was revealed last week called Thunderstrike 2 to infect a machine remotely through a second potential vulnerability through an Ad on the internet of the way error messages were logged called DYLD. It was a two step proof of concept demonstration, but the key was that the target machine HAD to be running in ROOT for it to work, or at least in ADMIN and then the user had to allow a ROOT access for the Trojan to install its malicious payload so it could survive a restart.

Then there is a very serious means of infecting Macs from hardware. . . but it requires physical possession of either the Mac or a peripheral which will be attached to the Mac. Neither of these is something to worry about for the average user unless you are allowing someone to bring in a foreign Thunderbolt device to plug into your computer. . . or you are allowing your machine out of your control. A partial fix for this is coming out soon. . . just as Apple has already blocked Thunderstrike 1. I posted a 3rd party patch already written by the hacker who discovered it.

[dayglored]

http://static.gamesradar.com/images/totalfilm/t/the-great-race-1965-_131759-fli_1365336338.jpg

[Swordmaker]

I've sometimes thought that operating a computer on the internet should require testing and a license, similar to automobiles and the public highways.

Except that of course the government would own that process and there goes our liberty. So,.... never mind that thought. :-)

I have frequently pointed out that a license or a permit is a government permission to do something that, without that permission, is against the law! This is true, because you can be fined or jailed for doing that thing if you do not have that license or permit and go ahead and do it.

It is fascinating to see their faces when they realize the truth of that fact. . . and how much of our daily lives are actually against the law.

[rlmorel]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! OMG...so THAT’S what we look like in these threads...:)

[rarestia]

I would still argue that a base install of Windows (fully-patched) is just as secure as a Mac. This means that UAC is turned on, Windows firewall is configured, and Windows Defender is turned on and up-to-date.

IE is the ONLY problem I can see in a base install compared to Safari, but I don’t know many Mac users who stick with Safari. Most install Chrome or Firefox out of the gate.

[roadcat]

LOL...the phone rings, and it is that person “up the food chain” who you KNEW was going to call sooner or later, because...that is just the way they are.

I got to know a lot of people "up the food chain", all the way up, spending lots of time in their offices fixing problems they caused. Certainly helped me in my career, but also caused a lot of stress (because of dropping everything else). Some of them had a desktop computer for appearances only, and had no clue how to use it. The ones I hated would say "You have 15 minutes to fix it!"; which would put me into slowdown mode.

[rlmorel]

I am lucky...I have almost always been treated with courtesy and respect by those above me who found themselves in that situation.

I know it isn’t always that way...

[daniel1212]

Apple’s total desktop/laptop market share as of July 2015 is approximately 8%. Microsoft also sits atop the heap for web client operating systems at 50% while Apple sits around 15%. These numbers are based on user agent statistics which is a measure of the core OS running the browser, not the browser itself. This means that over 90% of the operating systems running around the world are Windows-based

The latter would only be true if all the world was using Desktops, but which has radically changed. I myself use Windows, but my web site now shows over 60% of hits coming from mobile browsers.

See Mobile Exceeds PC Internet Usage for First Time in History In early 2014, the landscape in which businesses operate changed forever when Internet usage on mobile devices exceeded PC usage. - http://searchenginewatch.com/sew/opinion/2353616/mobile-now-exceeds-pc-the-biggest-shift-since-the-internet-began

1. Mobile Media Time Is Now Greater Than Desktop and Other Media The latest data shows that we are now well past the tipping point mentioned at the top of this post. Mobile digital media time in the US is now significantly higher at 51% compared to desktop (42%)

. 2. Mobile vs desktop device usage The trend in mobile device usage ('vertical screens') compared to all screen use again shows that we're well past the tipping point. - http://www.smartinsights.com/mobile-marketing/mobile-marketing-analytics/mobile-marketing-statistics/

53% of total email opens occurred on a mobile phone or tablet in Q3 2014. This is an increase from the 48% percent seen in Q2 2014. – Experian “Quarterly email benchmark report” (Q3 2014)

[daniel1212]

My office PC [they make me use one] ... gets infected all the time. Yeah, we have firewalls and they install all sorts of protection. They have to take it away and scrub it an bring it back. Then it will happen again eventually. Not once in over 25-28 years has my home Mac been infected and I do not use anti-virus.

Frankly i find that amazing. I have been an an extensive user of the Internet (avg. about 7 hours a day for 15 years, visiting numerous sites (i usually have over 100 tabs open) and have installed dozens of freeware apps, and hardly hardly ever ran anti-virus software, or anything more than the Windows firewall. Windows Defender is even turned off (not easy in W/10). But i use Win Patrol and usually used the free host file from

Yet i have only been infected with two viruses, thanks be to God, once under W/98SE and once under XP. I basically "pray and press," seeking to use the PC for God and for good, and avoid immoral sites, install software after investigation and from trusted sites, and hardly ever open attachments. I check CPU cycles constantly, and look to see what is running or set to run, occasionally run on line scans, and install Windows updates. Surfing is like driving. Be careful where you go.

[daniel1212]

Dell 13" XPS 13 notebook, 1.6GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor,

I often comparison shop items and that would be obsolete it seems. A Dell XPS13 2015 Newest Model has a 5th Generation Intel Core i5-5200U 2.2GHz with Intel Turbo Boost Technology up to 2.7GHz and a 52 WHr, 4-cell Li-Polymer Battery for up to 15 hrs, for $875.00 & FREE Shipping at Amazon .

While a Apple MacBook Air MJVE2LL/A 13.3-Inch Laptop (128 GB) NEWEST VERSION has a core i5 1.6 GHz with a Built-In Lithium-Polymer Providing up to 12 Hours per Charge (54 Wh) for $994.00 & FREE Shipping at Amazon .

There is no promotion here, as i mainly use a 2005 PC, and an old Toshiba laptop running Xubuntu mainly to stream Christian radio and play Bible tapes.

But the bloat on Windows is not good (though ITunes is also)

[rarestia]

If you re-read what I posted, the numbers on which to focus are the web client operating system numbers. 50% of web browsing requests come from Microsoft-based operating systems. Apple operating systems, both iOS and OSX, still only account for 15%. Android and Linux make up the remainder.

I’m not disputing mobile dominance for web usage, but those statistics are based on operating system reporting to web sites based on location awareness and other reporting mechanisms, NOT the operating system itself.