FRiend, you corrupt ideology is making you stupid.
The fact is you have no idea what "my standards" are, even though I've endlessly explained them.
My standards are the same standards as our Founding Fathers, who DID NOT "secede" from Britain "at pleasure" but only after many years of suffering abuse and failed negotiations.
The Founders Declaration includes a long list of British abuses, none of which were defenses of slavery, indeed Jefferson's original draft included a long moral condemnation of slavery, as having been imposed by the Brits.
Yes, those words did not survive editing, but they clearly indicate our Founders understood the moral problems slavery represents.
DiogenesLamp: "It is VERY hypocritical for a nation that explicitly recognizes such a right, and indeed was founded on the very same principle, to fight attempts to leave."
But the United States DID NOT fight the Deep South Declarations of Secession, nor did it fight their forming a new Confederacy.
The United States only went to war AFTER, the Confederacy provoked, started and declared war, then sent military aid to pro-Confederates in the Union state of Missouri.
DiogenesLamp: "I am not "pro-confederate" i'm pro "right to leave." "
Sorry FRiend, but that's a lie, and anyone can see it.
You are just as "pro-Confederate" as I am anti.
Your constant misrepresentations of my views demonstrate you hold to an ideology which renders you stupid to reality.
DiogenesLamp: "Unfortunately we have people like you who simply won't accept a "right to leave" because you are so emotionally tied up with "Rah rah! My Team won the Playoffs!" attitude regarding the civil war.
The larger principle involved here is whether Independence is a right given by "the laws of nature and of Nature's God", or it isn't."
But I support a "right to leave" under the same circumstances as our Founders left the British empire: no written constitution, no representative government, a long list of abuses, etc., etc.
I would also support a "right to leave" under conditions approved by our Founders: mutual consent and major breach of constitutional compact.
But just like our Founders, I don't believe in secession "at pleasure", and I certainly don't agree that secessionists should go about provoking, starting and declaring war on the United States.
That is not only wrong, it's just really stupid.
Just one of the many many lies and strawmen by dimbulb.
It imputes a "standard" to you and then goes about the task of tossing it like a Molotov cocktail into the room.
You've endlessly explained that the Slave holding states had no right to independence because they were slave holding states.
That is the summation of all your arguments.