How the Civil War Changed the World

New York Times Disunion ^ | May 19, 2015 | Don Doyle

[Ditto]

If the South had been successful, Germany wins WWI and no Hitler no holocaust and no Israel, no A bomb, no cold war, no ISIS, no Al Qada and most importantly no Obama.....

Where did you buy your Chrystal Ball?

[Jed Eckert]

Except that indentures had a limited time frame while slavery was forever. Indentured servants were not considered property. Indentured servants could not be sold, or have their childern and spouses sold. Indentured servants had rights under the Constitution. But you're right. Other than that they were exactly like slaves.

Yea, you're right, those damn ungrateful Irish just didn't know how good they had it < /sarcasm>:

The Irish Slave Trade – The Forgotten “White” Slaves

[central_va]

I do not judge Lincoln harshly because he was a racist but because he was a tyrant. I chastise 21st century buffoons who deify a slimy sleazy wanna bee dictator and slip a golden glove of racial virtue on a real POS.

[rockrr]

You have a logical fallacy of cause and effect. There is nothing that can be tied to the War Between the States (as an event) that provides clear linkage to our current straits of the overreach of federal government. It can only be a matter of speculation. And that same speculation can draw a straight line from the “success” of the csa to the very same circumstances we find ourselves in now.

We failed to contain the leftists and allowed them to redefine the scope of federal authority. It happens with every republic sooner or later.

[Jed Eckert]

Those Black Codes were enacted before Reconstruction and were, in fact, one of the reasons the Radical Republicans used for implementing it. So if you're looking for others to blame you'll have to try again

And we all know how well treated blacks were in most of the North post war:

EXCLUSION of FREE BLACKS

[Ditto]

Your state voted for Obama the last two elections and will likely vote for Hillary in the next one.

Not to even mention electing a thoroughly corrupt big government Marxist as their Governor.

[rockrr]

Your comic-book characterizations never fail to elicit a chuckle general. Don’t go changin’ ;’)

[rockrr]

They weren’t treated very well. But they were treated better than the unified Jim Crow laws of the south.

[central_va]

The Virginia legislature is overwhelming Republican that is why I favor Article V and repealing the 17th amendment.

[central_va]

our comic-book characterizations never fail to elicit a chuckle general. Don’t go changin’ ;’)

The virtuous Abe freer of the black man is the comic book characterization here.

[DoodleDawg]

Yea, you're right, those damn ungrateful Irish just didn't know how good they had it < /sarcasm>:

How many of the children and grandchildren of those Irish "slaves" were in bondage? How many were sold? How many Supreme Court decisions stated that Irish-Americans were not and could never be citizens?

[Ditto]

If the CSA didn’t have import tariffs, how would it have financed its government, much less a military?

They did have tariffs... as high as 25%.

Click here for the full list. It's pretty extensive.

[DoodleDawg]

And we all know how well treated blacks were in most of the North post war:

But we're talking about the South and all those thousands and thousands of stalwart Black men who fought for her freedom, or so the story goes. And the way you all rewarded them for their courage and loyalty. Not.

And in your article, just about all the examples were pre-war and not post war. But if your point is that there was just a whole lot of bigotry towards blacks in the North then I certainly am not disputing that. What I disagree with is your apparent belief that it was only in the North.

[DoodleDawg]

Not to even mention electing a thoroughly corrupt big government Marxist as their Governor.

And both their senators, too. Don't forget that.

[driftless2]

Well, good luck. On one of these CW threads years ago I made reference to the Ordinances of Secession trying to convince the diehards why the Southern states seceded. Every OOS made it plain slavery was the main reason they were seceding.

And for good measure I'd throw in Confederate Veep Alexander Stephens's quote about slavery being "the cornerstone of the Confederacy." All to no avail.

Basically it's banging your head against a brick wall trying to convince the diehards.

[Sherman Logan]

I know that. I’m just saying that the CSA apologists seem to think the government could run forever on hot air, that taxes would not be necessary.

It’s my contention that if the CSA had broken away, taxes would of necessity been much higher in both it and the USA.

[Sherman Logan]

Indenture was not “inflicted” on anyone, with exception of a few who were kidnapped and sold into indenture.

I believe it was darn rare, if it even existed anymore, by the time of the war.

[central_va]

You are so full of Lincoln. I just did a text search of 13 OOS on the word "slave" and got three hits, once in Texas, South Carolina and Alabama. A total of three hits. You can try it yourself yourself but I doubt you can manage a page search. Let me know if you need help.

Ordinances of Secession

[driftless2]

Yeah...whatever.

[central_va]

Caught in ANOTHER Lincoln Coven lie.

At least you guys keep in shape.