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To: BlueDragon; miss marmelstein; pax_et_bonum; 9thLife; Oberon; BunnySlippers; PGR88; Albion Wilde
Ping to #120 as requested by BlueDragon (you'll see the request bolded in his remarks at #120.)

Let me deal with just one of your points, BlueDragon--- one which is quite sensible. I'll get to the others if I have time. (French Onion soup on the stovetop right now.)

"Herbert Wolf, a leading scholar of the Catholic Church, learned of the Sant'Ambrogio scandal when he became one of the first allowed into the archives of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith".

"Wolf, a professor of ecclesiastical history at University of Muenster, Germany, made the discovery and has retold it in his book The Nuns of Sant'Ambrogio."

And when those in authority heard of what was going on at that place -- what happened? They shut the place down. So-- what 'scandal' is that for the Roman Catholic Church itself?

This is a very good point, and thanks, BlueDragon, for bringing it up. The author of the Sant'Ambrogio book, repeatedly called Herbert Wolf in the article, is Hubert Wolf, a legitimate ecclesiastical historian. He apparently wrote this account to appeal to those with University backgrounds in his field, because the customers over at Amazon who gave it low scores all described it as "dry," "dense," "legalistic," "too technical," "too academic," "page after page of scrupulous Vatican investigations, canonical charges, and due process" etc. Evidently not a bodice-ripper.

It's the Daily News which decided to skip all the social and legal history and go straight for the lesbian jiggery-pokery, making it sound like some sort of "Eurotrash horror story," in the words of one of the customer reviewers. Several others said it was disappointing to readers who were motivated principally by "prurient interest" --- although others found it prurient enough to repay their having to slog through the "presumption of innocence," forensic evidence standards and "witness protection" provisions of an 1859 Canonical Investigation.

There was an embezzler, lesbian and inveterate liar who got control of a convent in Rome in the 1850's; she was investigated by Church authorities and found guilty of peddling miracles, sexual predation, theft, attempted murder, and murder. All the evidence was handed over to the secular authorities and the criminal sister got jail time.

So you're quite right, BlueDragon: the story itself does not cast a scandalous light on the Catholic Church per se. The Church prosecutors did an excellent job. End of the story, except for the many pages of academic footnotes.

It's the Daily News, I would say, which decided to report this as some kind of Dan Brown Gothic murder mystery. They took out all the parts which were of legal or historic interest, left in the dirty bits, and headlined it like something from the supermarket tabloids.

Then came certain FReepers who shall remain unnamed (thought you can get their names by scanning this ugly thread) who specialize in scandal and defamation, and you get yet another platform for vicious generalizations against the Catholic Faith and the Consecrated Life.

I am disgusted. Where is the edification for our brothers and sisters here? Where is the grace? How I wish we in the Religion Forum would follow the standards of St. Paul:

Ephesians 4:29
Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for timely edification according to the present need, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

154 posted on 01/18/2015 6:46:31 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Lay away all malice, and all guile, and evil speech, rivalries, and all detraction. - 1 Peter 2:1)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

The other points require nothing much in the way of reply, other than for persons here to possibly review things overall, and possibly see that I'm not the bad guy, nor was I saying anything which could not be substantiated -- although I do confess to not supplying links for each and every aspect of the overall discussion which I went into...

To have done so would have taken many hours of my time to re-find and reconstruct all which I have read on the subject. I was just reading yet more on related matters (Magdalena Laundries, adoptions, and re-unification with birth mothers of some of those born under conditions similar to Tuam, etc.,)

But back to those of the sort which Howard Stern tantalized & capitalized upon, [lesbians] and your own response to my own comments;

Yes. If anything, due to how quickly an end was put to the shenanigans once those came to light, it could be seen as a positive credit to higher-up church 'authority'.

As possible tempering, or reduction of sorts towards the rapid response;

There could possibly be some consideration due to the relationship the woman

which possibly expedited the response.

In comparison, in many organizations beyond that only of "within the RCC", complaints are often seemingly set aside either as unsubstantiated, or 'fantasy' of those who bring the accusations, etc.

Sometimes -- as we all have seen -- accusations of most any type one could think of -- are nothing more than 'fantasy' on the part of the accuser, and thus are false allegation.

It can be difficult to sort out fact from fiction. No?

for textual coverage of the story from outside the daily mail web pages, there is http://www.floridanewstime.com/feed/national/89578-lesbian-sex-seduction-and-murder-by-nuns-in-a-catholic-convent-incredible-tale-of-debauchery-exposed-by-a-princess-found-in-secret-vatican-archive.txt which bypasses all the rest of the daily mail celebrity gossip garbage...

As for answer why coverage of this is allowable on the pages of FR --- if it's being talked about ---- then even if a story is "wrong", then those who have some interest in persons or institutions which could be effected by the "news" of things such as this are forewarned of the perturbations of "the force"? Luke -- I am your papa? hehheh

So there can be that sort of positive aspect of it all. To be fore-warned is to be fore-armed..?

160 posted on 01/18/2015 8:03:02 PM PST by BlueDragon ( Is it Islamophobic to oppose these beheadings?)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Don’t mistake the Daily Mail for the Daily News. The Daily News is a New York City tabloid beloved by middle class and working class New Yorkers. Its main concerns are local crime and politics - not Dan Brown-like hysteria.


167 posted on 01/19/2015 4:50:51 AM PST by miss marmelstein (Richard the Third: Loyalty Binds Me)
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