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6 Home Defense Carbines, 5 are NOT ARís
The Daily Caller ^ | March 15, 2012 | Michael Piccione

Posted on 12/26/2012 7:00:26 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

Let’s talk home defense.

First things first, shotguns are devastatingly powerful. Nothing can compare to the 12 gauge at close range. Even birdshot, which is still one mass of moving lead at close range, will tear a human to shreds. In my battery I have a Remington 870 and a bandoleer of slugs and buck ready to go for when the SHTF. You don’t lose much with a 20 gauge at close range either and you gain some agility with a smaller gun, and more family members are likely to respond better to the 20.

The second point I’d like to make is on handguns for home defense. Shoot the biggest cartridge you can handle.

--snip--

Hi-Point Carbine

This is the least expensive gun on the list with a suggested retail price of $285. You can get them in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP. The added barrel length as a rule of thumb will add 300 feet per second making even a 9mm a good stopper and even better with +P loads. The specs on this gun make it a good home defense choice; 16.5” barrel, length 31” and it weighs 6.25 lbs. Now here is the rub, some folks flat out hate these guns. Others love them. I’m indifferent right now because I don’t have a lot of range time to make up my mind but that will change because my neighbor just got one...

(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Military/Veterans; Outdoors; Reference
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; secondamendment; selfdefense
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1 posted on 12/26/2012 7:00:29 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Comments on one of these threads is guaranteed.


2 posted on 12/26/2012 7:01:53 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The best gun is the one you have when you need it. As long as it goes bang then it will be a game changer. Nobody wants to be shot with even a .22

For the home I prefer a 12 guage or a .45 but I found some tests which found the 5.56 round had the least penetration through sheetrock walls. It only went through 3 simulated walls.


3 posted on 12/26/2012 7:05:52 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I am interested in the Hi Point carbine in .45 cal. I would appreciate any range reports from current owners.


4 posted on 12/26/2012 7:07:30 PM PST by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I don’t have anything with which to defend myself. Come on in...


5 posted on 12/26/2012 7:14:32 PM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: SVTCobra03

I’ve had the C9 9mm pistol for some time now and think it’s probably the best value for the money out there. Can’t afford the carbine at this time.


6 posted on 12/26/2012 7:14:42 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: driftdiver

12ga/45 is safe bet. I like how the first two listed were my favorite rugers.


7 posted on 12/26/2012 7:16:15 PM PST by enraged
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The second point I’d like to make is on handguns for home defense. Shoot the biggest cartridge you can handle.

Photobucket

8 posted on 12/26/2012 7:16:21 PM PST by umgud (No Rats, No Rino's)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

454 Casull = too much recoil

HiPoint carbine - I’d go with the 45ACP

AR - be sure to have something like Hornady TAP ammo or maybe some frangible ammo for inside the house.

And please tell me where I can get an AR for $650.


9 posted on 12/26/2012 7:17:14 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I think I’d opt for an old, honestly-used lever gun in .44 or .357 rather than a highpoint. JMO.


10 posted on 12/26/2012 7:19:05 PM PST by OKSooner ("The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen." - Revelation 22:21)
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To: umgud

Not recommended for apartment dwellers...


11 posted on 12/26/2012 7:19:25 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: smokingfrog
And please tell me where I can get an AR for $650.

I could tell you where but that's not the problem. The problem is when. Do you have ready access to a time travel machine?

12 posted on 12/26/2012 7:20:08 PM PST by BipolarBob (Bitter, clinging to my Bible and AR-15.)
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To: SVTCobra03

Keep your eye out for an old Marlin camp carbine in .45acp.


13 posted on 12/26/2012 7:29:05 PM PST by OKSooner ("The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen." - Revelation 22:21)
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To: smokingfrog
AR - be sure to have something like Hornady TAP ammo or maybe some frangible ammo for inside the house.

No frangible! Frangible is for shooting steel and breaking up. Drywall is not harder than the cartridge. It will tear through your home and your neighbor's home.

#4 Buckshot in a 12/20 gauge shotgun with a light or 45/40/9 in handgun with a light.

14 posted on 12/26/2012 7:31:34 PM PST by Azeem (There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo.)
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To: smokingfrog

Wal-Mart, until Sandy Hook happened. Had some really nice ones.


15 posted on 12/26/2012 7:31:58 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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*


16 posted on 12/26/2012 7:36:19 PM PST by PMAS (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The section on handguns was ignorant. There are many valid reasons that a SHTF handgun should be a 9mm, such as weight of the ammo, ubiquity of the ammo, cost of training with the round, etc. An invalid reason to knock the 9mm would be its non-performance in the hands of gang bangers using FMJ ammo from Wal*Mart.

Most unabashed fans of bigger bore handguns have likely never shot at a target trying to avoid being hit. They also likely never have seen how hard it is to achieve solid hits in a two way shooting range.

If higher capacity carbines trump the shotgun's low capacity but generally more powerful ammunition, for ease firing and time of firing without reloading, and ease of other family members being able to achieve hits with it, etc,, the double stack 9mm holds the same type of advantages over the single stack .45ACP or 6-8 shot .357 Magnum revolver.
17 posted on 12/26/2012 7:37:49 PM PST by Goldsborough
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

If I know someone is in the house, I’m with the Saiga 12 at the top of the stairs as wife calls 911 holding her 870. If I have to investigate, I’m taking my M&P .45 and light. A rifle and shotgun can’t corner/quarter as well and are easier to grab by bad guy hiding.


18 posted on 12/26/2012 7:40:06 PM PST by Azeem (There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo.)
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To: Azeem

I thought frangible was what air marshals used. Or are they using something like Glaser safety slugs?


19 posted on 12/26/2012 7:40:29 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: smokingfrog
Last month at the gun show in Monroeville Pa., they were selling complete lower AR recievers in Polymer for 149.95. Uppers from Midway were selling at a starting price of 409.00.

How well does a polymer reciver stand up? Glocks, Rugers, Springfields seem to do OK. I don't know.

20 posted on 12/26/2012 7:46:39 PM PST by metalurgist ( Want your country back? It'll take guns and rope. Marxists won't give up peaceably.)
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To: smokingfrog

Anything that won’t penetrate the plane won’t do a reliable job on a person. The airplane skin is very thin.

I don’t know what Air Marshall’s use but puncturing the side of a plane with a bunch of bullets won’t take it down. That only happens in Hollywood.


21 posted on 12/26/2012 7:49:15 PM PST by Azeem (There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo.)
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To: SVTCobra03
Here's a video involving the 9mm Hi Point Nutn Fancy on the Hi Point 995TS
22 posted on 12/26/2012 7:51:12 PM PST by SolidRedState (I used to think bizarro world was a fiction.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Thanks for the post. I carry a .38 and my wife has a .22 mag for her purse and wants something bigger. (She fired a .357 mag at the range and loved it.) All we really have for home defense is a Winchester Defender 1300 and I’m rethinking what will be needed when times get weird(er).


23 posted on 12/26/2012 8:00:49 PM PST by Baynative
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To: smokingfrog
"please tell me where I can get an AR for $650."

Cash talks in da hood.

24 posted on 12/26/2012 8:02:13 PM PST by Baynative
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To: Goldsborough
9mm is fine for anything. I suggest it because ya can get plenty of dual use out of it. Grab a cheap Ruger Camp 9 Carbine. Nice little carbine and 9mm is easy to get. You get plenty of speed and power out of the rifle barrel. Great little gun to keep around the house.

Throw in a Mini-14 and 30. Nice little guns for any real purpose out there.

25 posted on 12/26/2012 8:11:44 PM PST by Theoria (Romney is a Pyrrhic victory.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Good post, and good advice.

I’ve got a double-barrel 20 gauge shotgun (w/ two triggers), a 30.06 with scope, a Russian AK (semi), a 22 squirrel rifle, a 357 S&W, and some other miscellaneous handguns. Everybody in the family can be shooting away at any invading Obama Democrat locusts who venture onto my property when the SHTF.

I would like to get a couple more high-powered rifles w/ scopes, though, just to be sure.


26 posted on 12/26/2012 8:14:30 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: metalurgist

Were they printed?


27 posted on 12/26/2012 8:17:30 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Carbine for the house? OH GOSH YES! I suggest a Rossi, not a Puma, for the money value. The Puma line are near Browning Hi Power cost, whereas, a Rossi will not break you. They make them in most revolver calibers, and even .44-40. I read a report, that stated a carbine in 16-inch barrel lentgth, (I believe it was on CHUCKHAWKS.COM), is the optimal length of a barrel for a .357 Magnum chambering. Any longer a barrel, and the ‘law of diminishing returns’ kicks in, and we don’t need that. Yes, folks do suggest mostly 158-grain loads, but for home defense, for me, I employ 125-grain loads. Remember, too, a 16-inch .357 magnum carbine weighs less than five pounds. That read-about .357 magnum ‘oomph’ has to go somewhere when that bullet leaves the barrel, and your shoulder is where it is going. You will feel the difference in the grain weight loads.

Here is what my 20th Century ‘jaeger rifle’ looks like, complete with John Wayne large lever loop:

http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details.cfm?id=174&category=8&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=

No scopes, no hooded sights. I have ordered, and emplaced a leather ‘butt cuff’ like this one:

http://www.diamonddcustomleather.com/Rifle_Butt_Cuff.php

(Won’t the liberals have fun with trying to regulate a handmade piece of leather, huh?)

And like the author, yes - the rifle can chamber both .357 Magnum and .38 Special, in that order, I prefer to feed this little beastie only factory 125-grain .357 Magnum loads. I was told that particular round is good on all things, feral.

So, enjoy life, get one of these little beasties, get the other leather to go with it - someone out there makes a muzzle cap, too - and for the full experience, get a pair of ‘mechanics’ style gloves at your hardware dealer in desert tan. (Shooting a lever action with a good set of gloves will save your hand.)

http://www.mechanix.com/tactical/the-original-coyote-glove

Have fun, learning how to guard hearth and home, like our pioneering forefathers did in The Great West. Besides, this particular carbine is in no way shape or fashion anything close to an “Evil Battle Rifle”, or E.B.R!!!

Happy New Year to all the Freepers!

Long live the Republic!


28 posted on 12/26/2012 8:19:01 PM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I forgot one thing .... everything the author recommends, except the lever action, is A SEMI-AUTOMATIC OPERATING RIFLE!!! Duh!


29 posted on 12/26/2012 8:21:45 PM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: Goldsborough

I’ll see your 9mm (Browning hi power mkIII), and raise you a Sw Model 10/15.

Why?

After shooting both a MkII and MKIII, with: non-limp-wristed FTF/FTE’s caused by factory ammo and magazine failures to keep slide back after last shot, with the seconds necessary to whether tap-rack=bang, or tap-drop-rack-slap-rack-bang, I do not believe that semi-automatic pistol machinery, in any caliber, can equate to the relaese of a nice lead 158 grain solid semiwadcutter, with each trigger pull on a four-inch barreled .38 Special revolver. I’ve watched intently every 9mm load fired through the ‘FBI-standardized’ four layers of denim placed in front of Simtest ballistic gelatin test material, only to see it fail to operate as designed. Solid semiwadcutters, which are not hollow point bullet deisgns, do not clog, nor fail to ‘petalize’.

What made me consider this load? I made a visit to the Fed pen in another part of the state, on a nice clear fall day, where the business office was located 75 yards from ‘the workout cage’. The weights being lifted by, and the girths of, these ‘refrigerator perrys’ helped me make that decision.


30 posted on 12/26/2012 8:40:51 PM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: Terry L Smith
I'm surprised this thread got this far without someone bringing up the Sub 2000 in 40 S&W. I have the glock mag model and thirty plus round mags for it, as well as Glock 22 mags for it. With hollow point ammo this weapon is not only light, it packs a wallop and is small enough to 'clear a house' with. And if you want to take it 'camping', it folds down to 16 inches from its 29.5 inch shooting length. I've shot eveything I can find, including Tula through it and it eats them all with no hiccups. [If you get one, put a hogue finger grip on the thing and enjoy ... with the ammo now available for the 40 S&W, I've stepped down from .45 acp to 40 S&W for home and personal defense. I can manage the recoil better ...

And while I'm rambling, the 5.56 in pistol configuration with two or three 30 round Pmags makes a nice surprise if a gaggle of feral ver4min show up at your home, uninvited.

31 posted on 12/26/2012 8:42:14 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: driftdiver

A .22 to the head is usually a game changer as it likes to ricochet around the inside of the skull.Also remember you only want to deal with the situation in your home, not your neighbors. Pick the gun and caliber for your surroundings.


32 posted on 12/26/2012 8:49:38 PM PST by Mastador1
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

For clearing the house we rely on Mr. Mossberg 500 tactical.


33 posted on 12/26/2012 8:56:17 PM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

For clearing the house we rely on Mr. Mossberg 500 tactical.


34 posted on 12/26/2012 8:56:26 PM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Goldsborough
Most unabashed fans of bigger bore handguns have likely never shot at a target trying to avoid being hit. They also likely never have seen how hard it is to achieve solid hits in a two way shooting range.

Tell that to the Marine Corps which is changing over from the 9mm to the .45 cal. Semper Fi.

35 posted on 12/26/2012 8:57:16 PM PST by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Ruger 10/22 with a Ruger brand 25 round magazine, er, I mean clip, and a 2-7x or 4x quality rimfire scope. Want to carry 500 rds of something other than .22LR? Not me thanks.


36 posted on 12/26/2012 8:58:12 PM PST by 43north (BHO: 50% black, 50% white, 100% RED)
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To: Goldsborough

I like a handgun with a laser. Yes, I think it is difficult to hit a moving target with a handgun and be moving yourself and a laser makes the task easier.


37 posted on 12/26/2012 9:02:51 PM PST by staytrue
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Mine is one of these in .45 ACP.

http://www.justrightcarbines.com/


38 posted on 12/26/2012 9:03:24 PM PST by Okieshooter
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To: Theoria

“....and 9mm is easy to get.”

.
Walmart was out of 9mm this afternoon and so were other stores.

What’s going on?


39 posted on 12/26/2012 9:14:11 PM PST by 353FMG
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To: 353FMG

I guess ‘easy’ to get. I usually don’t get all of my ammo from Wally world. I suspect its simple supply and demand as of now. Or perhaps, Walmart is slowly turning away from guns and ammo in the future? I know they took down their AR’s from online pretty quickly after the Conn. shooting.


40 posted on 12/26/2012 9:21:28 PM PST by Theoria (Romney is a Pyrrhic victory.)
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To: Goldsborough

Most caliber wars are fought for the pleasure of the participants. I don’t own any semi-automatic handguns. I shoot revolvers because I enjoy them more, and a defensive gun ought to be one you don’t have to think about. I’ve never felt undergunned in the night with my 7-shot 686+, or even my 6-shot single action guns.

All that said, the 9mm is a fine round and the guns that use it have a proven track record. I may carry a 5-shot J-frame, but 15+ rounds of 9mm is nothing to sneeze at. And the ammo is about the cheapest ammo you can buy commercially. That encourages lots of shooting...

The one time I’ve pulled a gun, it was a 22 that I happened to be carrying with me while hiking that day. I had probably shot 10,000+ rounds thru it, and I suspect part of the reason the 8 guys stopped trying to surround me was that there was something in my body language that said, “I won’t miss!” The familiarity of a fine gun in your hand that you’ve shot a few thousand times is a wonderful thing if you need to make 5 or even 15 shots get the job done.


41 posted on 12/26/2012 9:34:56 PM PST by Mr Rogers (America is becoming California, and California is becoming Detroit. Detroit is already hell.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The article is wrong about needing the largest caliber pistol to stop an assialant... Serious studies of real shootings have show that an accurate shot with a lower caliber is just as likely to take down the bad guy. And - as the author pointed out with shotguns - a 20 ga. shotgun would be better handled of many people (smaller stature, less strong, etc.) and yet not lose much knock down at relatively close range versus a 12 ga....

The best defense caliber is one that does not cause the shooter to close their eyes, flinch or hesitate... Few people are accurate shooters in a sudden unexpected terrifying situation - adrenaling pumping, frightened, etc. So having many smaller caliber rounds - means in case of 9mm up to 14 rounds in a Browning HighPower... vs about 1/2 in a powerful .45 ir 357. I think any gun that hits where it is pointed by an average person because the recoil did not knock his/her arm and head back is the best most reliable defense. There is power in numbers... Note: .22 cal. killed Robert Kennedy and nearly killed Reagan ...


42 posted on 12/26/2012 9:51:02 PM PST by ICCtheWay
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To: Georgia Girl 2

Good choice. My Dad used one in RVN. I have a ‘Maverick’ for the safety on the trigger guard, and an AT top-folding stock.
I believe if Martha Stewart recommended a ‘Home for the Holidays’ firearm, she would go for the boom-stick.


43 posted on 12/26/2012 9:57:08 PM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: SVTCobra03

I have the Hi-Point 40 S&W and love it and when my alarm went off recently it came in very hand as I checked things out. I love the thing and it is like carrying a M-14 or M-16.


44 posted on 12/26/2012 10:00:56 PM PST by Trueblackman (I would rather lose on Conservative principles than vote for a RINO candidate.)
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To: OKSooner

I have a Marlin Camp Carbine in 9 mm and love it.


45 posted on 12/26/2012 10:02:24 PM PST by chrisinoc
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

*


46 posted on 12/26/2012 10:05:39 PM PST by BunnySlippers (Yes, they have. Don't you read?I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: 353FMG
Walmart was out of 9mm this afternoon and so were other stores.

What’s going on?

My local Wall Mart has been out of 9mm since last Friday plus a bunch of other cals.
Looks like they haven't restocked since Friday.

47 posted on 12/26/2012 10:05:53 PM PST by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin......Nuff said.)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

As a postscript, the 12 gauge has four times the muzzle energy of a .44 magnum, so ‘candycane’ slugs with 00 and you’re loaded for bear.


48 posted on 12/26/2012 10:06:17 PM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

bkmk


49 posted on 12/26/2012 10:08:37 PM PST by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: The Cajun
Wall Mart Walmart, Cajun typing without using brain again :)
50 posted on 12/26/2012 10:11:20 PM PST by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin......Nuff said.)
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