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Awake.
RedState ^ | 6/29/2012 | Erick Erickson

Posted on 06/29/2012 9:11:12 AM PDT by Signalman

In the past twenty-four hours I have gotten a lot of heat from friends over my take on what John Roberts did. What’s done is done and I really could not get all worked up about it because Obamacare in the Courts has been such a distraction. Yet again the GOP expected a court to save them from something they did not like.

The GOP has largely turned its nose up at the tea party, which is its salvation. The tea party movement provided the GOP with the energy, man power, and money to take back the House in 2010 and come close in the Senate. For that, the GOP has routinely given the tea party the middle finger and, instead of fighting for repeal of Obamacare, excused itself while the Supreme Court did the heavy lifting.

John Roberts, the man who gave us the Citizens United case has now, with a laughably inane ruling, told us we have to fight politically. The millions of people who joined the tea party in 2009 only to go back to their jobs and families after the 2010 election are now awake.

In waking, what they are seeing is a government claiming that food stamps will make you look amazing and that encourages people to party with food stamps. They are seeing a corrupt tourism program. They are seeing tax cheats getting billions from Barack Obama. They are seeing high unemployment, the United States Attorney General held in contempt of congress, the GOP cave on fiscal issues, and the Supreme Court deciding something the vast majority of Americans hate is constitutional.

And they are seeing that, just like in 2010, they are the only ones who can stop Barack Obama and the Democrats. The GOP is nothing without the tea party. Tea Party activists are awake again. And thanks to John Roberts they are mad as hell.

Mitt Romney raised more than $2 million between the time John Roberts sold liberty down the river and sunset. Barack Obama’s campaign would not comment. And thanks to John Roberts, the Democrats who want us all to know how popular individual portions of Obamacare are, will now have to campaign on “vote for us to save the biggest tax increase in American history that 60% of Americans want repealed.”

A giant woke in 2009. It went back to sleep thinking it had saved the republic in 2010. It’s awake now and I don’t think it is going back to sleep.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: awake; erickson; obama; obamacare; obamatax; redstate

1 posted on 06/29/2012 9:11:13 AM PDT by Signalman
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To: Signalman

I am up.


2 posted on 06/29/2012 9:23:08 AM PDT by LadyEleanor
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To: Signalman

David Axelrod’s plea for money received this morning.

Yesterday’s Supreme Court ruling was very personal to me.

Thirty years ago, my daughter Lauren, then just seven months old, began having grand mal seizures. They wouldn’t stop for 18 years.

Lauren’s epilepsy robbed her of her childhood, some of her capacities and, very nearly, her life.

We were young parents then, just starting out, with lousy insurance I got from my job. And we very nearly went broke paying for Lauren’s uncovered care and medication.

I was moved to tears when the Supreme Court affirmed the Affordable Care Act, because I know that other families won’t have to face the terror and heartache we knew.

And that’s because of a president who had the courage to defy the politics and all the obstacles in order to fight for people like my Lauren.

Say you’re standing with President Obama:

http://my.barackobama.com/Yesterday

- David


3 posted on 06/29/2012 9:26:56 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: Signalman

Democrat smug is wearing off in a hurry.


4 posted on 06/29/2012 9:31:28 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Signalman

This is the guy who tried to spin Roberts treachery into some plan of political genius to hand us a momentary window of expediency. Forget reviving and preserving constitutional limits on government for the safety of our kids and grand kids. Really what’s going to happen to them when the next, smarter and more effective Obama comes along? We are even more done after the Roberts sellout than we were we started. It just hasn’t caught up to us yet.


5 posted on 06/29/2012 9:37:43 AM PDT by dajeeps
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To: Signalman; All
Before anyone begins harsh criticism of this writer's take on the decision, let's examine the merits of the argument he makes.

As citizens, we may have trusted the "parchment" document called the Constitution to protect us. We may have trusted the "Court" to protect us. In the end, though, as previous justices have warned us, our Constitution, by its own provisions, is "the People's" document.

Unless its principles live in our hearts, minds, and in our will to keep elected and appointed officials from turning it on its head, it is just that: a "parchment barrier."

"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court even can do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

With that said, let us examine a valuable review of the so-called "living constitution" school of thought which brought us to yesterday. In the Bicentennial Year of the Constitution, 1987, the following Walter Berns' essay was included in a larger volume, "Our Ageless Constitution." Berns reminded citizens that, through the Constitution's own provisions, and the Founders' own words, it is, as Justice Story asserted, "the People" who are "the only KEEPERS" of the Constitution.

If "the People" are, in the words of Madison, "awakened," then perhaps America may today begin a return to the principles of the "parchment" document whose Preamble describes its noble intent.

   







 

 

 

 
 

 

Do We Have
A Living
Constitution?

"Until the people have, by some solemn and authoritative act, annulled or changed the established form, it is binding upon them collectively, as well as individually; and no presumption or even knowledge of their sentiments, can warrant their representatives [the executive, judiciary, or legislature]; in a departure from it prior to such an act." - Alexander Hamilton

In the first of the eighty-five "Federalist Papers," Alexander Hamilton emphasized that:

"... it seems to have been reserved to the people of this country, by their conduct and example, to decide the important question, whether societies of men are really capable or not of establishing good government from reflection or choice, or whether they are forever destined to depend for their political constitutions on accident and force."

The Framers knew that the passage of time would surely disclose imperfections or inadequacies in the Constitution, but these were to be repaired or remedied by formal amendment, not by legislative action or judicial construction (or reconstruction). Hamilton (in The Federalist No. 78) was emphatic about this:

"Until the people have, by some solemn and authoritative act, annulled or changed the established form, it is binding upon them collectively, as well as individually; and no presumption, or even knowledge of their sentiments, can warrant their representatives in a departure from it prior to such an act."

The Congress, unlike the British Parliament, was not given final authority over the Constitution, which partly explains why the judicial authority was lodged in a separate and in­dependent branch of government. In Britain the supreme judicial authority is exercised by a committee of the House of Lords, which is appropriate in a system of parliamentary supremacy, but, although it was suggested they do so, the Framers refused to follow the British example.

The American system is one of constitutional supremacy, which means that sovereignty resides in the people, not in the King-in-Parliament; and the idea that the Constitution may be changed by an act of the legislature--even an act subsequently authorized by the judiciary--is simply incompatible with the natural right of the people to determine how (and even whether) they shall be governed.

Unlike in Britain where, formally at least, the queen rules by the grace of God (Dei gratia regina), American government rests on the consent of the people; and, according to natural right, the consent must be given formally. In fact, it must be given in a written compact entered into by the people. Here is Madison on the compacts underlying American government:

  • "Altho' the old idea of a compact between the Govt. & the people be justly exploded, the idea of a compact among those who are parties to a Govt. is a fundamental principle of free Govt.

  • "The original compact is the one implied or presumed, but nowhere reduced to writing, by which a people agree to form one society. The next is a compact, here for the first time reduced to writing, by which the people in their social state agree to a Govt. over them." (In a letter to Nicholas P. Trist, February 15, 1830)

Neither civil society (or as Madison puts it, "the people in their social state') nor government exists by nature. By nature everyone is sovereign with respect to himself, free to do whatever in his judgment is necessary to preserve his own life - or, in the words of the Declaration of Independence, everyone is endowed by nature with the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of a happiness that he defines for himself. Civil society is an artificial person (constituted by the first of the compacts), and it is civil society that institutes and empowers government. So it was that they became "the People of the United States" in 1776 and, in 1787-88, WE, THE PEOPLE ordained and established "this Constitution for the United States of America."

In this formal compact THE PEOPLE specified the terms and conditions under which "ourselves and posterity," would be governed: granting some powers and withholding others, and organizing the powers granted with a view to preventing their misuse by the legislative, the executive, and the judicial branches alike. WE THE PEOPLE were authorized by natural right to do this, and were authorized to act on behalf of posterity only insofar as the rights of posterity to change those terms and conditions were respected. This was accomplished in Article V of the Constitution, the amending article, which prescribed the forms to be followed when exercising that power in the future.

  • What THE PEOPLE were not permitted to do in 1787-88 was to deprive - or pretend to deprive - posterity of their natural right to do in the future what the founding generation had done in 1776. Nor could they, by pretending to delegate it to Congress, the President, or the Supreme Court, deprive them of their sovereign power to change the Constitution. Instead, that power was recognized in the Constitution's provisions in Article V.

The Framers had designed a constitutional structure for a government which would be limited by that structure - by the distribution of power into distinct departments, a system of legislative balances and checks, an independent judiciary, a system of representation, and an enlargement of the orbit "within which such systems are to revolve" And to the judges they assigned the duty, as "faithful guardians of the Constitution," to preserve the integrity of the structure, for it is by the structure (more than by "parchment barriers") that the government is limited. It would he only a slight exaggeration to say that, in the judgment of the Founders, the Constitution would "live" as long as that structure was preserved.

The Enduring American Constitution

Now, almost 200 years later, one can read Hamilton's words in Federalist No. 1 and conclude that, under some conditions, some "societies of men" are capable of "establishing good government," but that most are not. This is not for lack of trying; on the contrary, constitutions are being written all the time - of some 164 countries in the world, all but a small handful (seven by the latest count) have written constitutions - but most of them are not long-lived.

In September 1983, the American Enterprise Institute sponsored an international conference on constitution writing at the Supreme Court of the United States; some twenty-odd countries were represented. With the exception of the Americans, the persons present had themselves played a role - in some cases a major role - in the writing of their countries' constitutions, most of them written since 1970. Only the con­stitution of the French Fifth Republic predated 1970; and the Nigerian, so ably discussed and defended at the 1983 conference by one of its own Framers, had subsequently been subverted, much as the four previous French republican constitutions had been subverted. It would seem that many peoples are experienced in the writing of constitutions, but only a few of them - conspicuous among these the people of America - have an experience of stable constitutional govern­ment. In that sense, we surely have "a living Constitution." That is not, however, the sense in which the term is ordinarily used in the literature of constitutional law as shall be explored herein.

Treating The Constitution As
A Thing Without Form or Substance:
New Definitions Of 'Living'

In the language of many today, a "living Constitution" is not first of all one that is long-lived; rather, its longevity is a secondary or derivative quality which is attributed to its "flexibility" or better, its "adaptability." It is this quality--"adaptability"-- that allows it to be "kept in tune with the times," as the members of this school of thought sometimes say. According to them, a living Constitution is first of all a protean constitution - one whose meaning is not fixed, but variable.

In this respect, it is similar to the Constitution as understood by the "judicial power" school. Some judicial power advocates go so far as to say that, until the judges supply it in the process of adjudication, the Constitution has no meaning whatever. Here are the words of judge Lynn D. Compton of California, writing in 1977 in the pages of the Los Angeles Times:

"Let's be honest with the public. Those courts are policy-making bodies. The policies they set have the effect of law because of the power those courts are given by the Constitution. The so-called "landmark decisions" of both of U.S. Supreme Court and the California Supreme Court were not compelled by legal precedent. Those decisions are the law and are considered "right" simply because the court had the power to decree the result. The result in any of those cases could have been exactly the opposite and by the same criteria been correct and binding precedent.

"In short, these precedent-setting policy decisions were the products of the social, economic and political philosophy of the majority of the justices who made up the court at a given time in history .."

So extreme a view of judicial power is not likely ever to be expressed in the official reports; there (perhaps in order to be dishonest with the public) even the most inventive judge will claim to be expounding the Constitution, if not its ex­plicit provisions then, at least its emanations, penumbras, or lacunae (Griswold v. Connecticut). What is of interest is that a judge should be willing to express it anywhere - for what it means is that a constitutional provision can be interpreted, but not misinterpreted, construed but not misconstrued. More to the point here is that it means that the Constitution is a living charter of government only because it is repeatedly being reinvented by the judiciary.

  • "Creating" Constitutional Rights and Dworkin's Influence

The 'Living Constitution' school and the 'Judicial Power' school may be indistinguishable at the margins, but they derive from unrelated and distinct sources. 'Judicial Power' is a product or an extension of legal realism, the school of thought whose advocates, from the beginning of the twentieth century, have argued that the essence of the judicial process consists not in interpreting law, whether statute or constitutional, but in making it. Its advocates today speak with a certain nonchalance of "creating" constitutional rights (Moore v. City of East Cleveland), and, when pressed to cite their authority for doing so are likely to point to the work of contemporary legal theorists like Ronald Dworkin and his book Taking Rights Seriously . It is Dworkin who has purportedly given this sort of "constitutional lawmaking" what it has always lacked ­ a philosophical underpinning. As he sees it, rights cannot be taken seriously until there has been "a fusion of constitutional law and moral theory," and to make it clear that he is not referring to any particular moral theory that may have informed the Constitution as written, he finishes that sentence by saying that that fusion "has yet to take place."

As it turns out, however, the moral theory he propounds, and which he hopes to "fuse" with constitutional law, proves to be nothing more than a fancy way of justifying what the judge Comptons among us have been doing all along. And what they have been doing is, essentially, treating the Constitution as a thing without form or substance, except insofar as it authorizes the judges to give it substance.

  • The 'Living Constitution' School's Distortion of Marshall

The living Constitution school also claims to have a source more venerable than legal realism or Ronald Dworkin - justice John Marshall. A former president of the American Political Science Association argues that the idea of a " 'living Constitution'...can trace its lineage back to John Marshall's celebrated advice in McCulloch v. Maryland (1819): 'We must never forget that it is a Constitution we are expounding...intended to endure for ages to come, and consequently to be adapted to the various crises of human affairs' " The words quoted are certainly Marshall's but the opinion attributed to him is at odds with his well-known statements that, for example, the "principles" of the Constitution "are deemed fundamental [and] permanent" and, except by means of formal amendment, "unchangeable" (Marbury v. Madison). It is important to note that the discrepancy is not Marshall's; it is largely the consequence of the manner in which he is quoted - ellipses are used to join two statements separated by some eight pages in the original text. Marshall did not say that the Constitution should be adapted to the various crises of human affairs; he said that the powers of Congress are adaptable to meet those crises. The first statement appears in that part of his opinion where he is arguing that the Constitution cannot specify "all the subdivisions of which its great powers will admit;" if it attempted to do so, it would "partake of the prolixity of a legal code" (McCulloch v. Maryland), In the second statement, Marshall's subject is the legislative power, and specifically the power "to make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution" the explicitly granted powers.

Neither Marshall nor any other prominent members of the founding generation can be 'appropriated' by the living Constitution school to support their erroneous views. Marshall's and the Founders' concern was not to keep the Constitution in tune with the times but, rather, to keep the times to the extent possible, in tune with the Constitution. And that is why the Framers assigned to the judiciary the task of protecting the Constitution as written.

They were under no illusions that this would prove to be an easy task. Nevertheless, they had reason to believe that they had written a constitution that deserved to endure and, properly guarded, would endure. Hence, Madison spoke out forcefully against frequent appeals to the people for change. Marshall had this Madisonian passage in mind when, in his opinion for the Court in Marbury, he wrote:

  • "That the people have an original right to establish, for their future government, such principles as, in their opinion, shall most conduce to their own happiness, is the basis on which the whole American fabric has been erected. The exercise of this original right is a very great exertion; nor can it, nor ought it, to be frequently repeated. The principles, therefore, so established, are deemed fundamental: and as the authority from which they proceed is supreme, and can seldom act, they are designed to be permanent."

At this point, it is well to remember Hamilton's strong warning about unwarranted presumptions by those in government of a power to depart from the people's established form as quoted in the title of this essay.

Marshall referred to the "principles" which he called "permanent," and the "basis on which the whole American fabric has been erected" Yet Marshall also chose to address the much broader issue of the general scope of the national powers. The Constitution must be construed to "...allow to the national legislature that discretion, with respect to the means by which the powers it confers are to be carried into execution, which will enable that body to perform the high duties assigned to it, in the manner most beneficial to the people." It is these powers, not the Constitution, which are flexible and adaptable to meet the crises of "human affairs."

Ironically, the very case cited by the "living Constitution" school, when properly read, demonstrates that John Marshall, at least, saw, no need for flexibility in the Constitution.

Summary: Do We Have A Living Constitution?

What has been undertaken here has been providing (within a very brief compass indeed) an accurate statement of the principles underlying the American Constitution: pointing to (but by no means elaborating) the political theory from which they derive and the constitutional conclusions to which they lead. Among the latter is the untenability of the proposition that constitutional limitations can be jettisoned, constitutional power enhanced, or the constitutional divi­sion of powers altered, by means other than formal constitutional amendment.

It will not be argued that it may sometimes be convenient to allow the Senate to originate a bill "for raising revenue," but convenience is not a measure of constitutionality. There is much to be said in favor of the legislative veto - Who would, in principle, deny the need of checks on administrative agencies? - but, as the Supreme Court correctly said, the Framers anticipated that Congress might find reason to employ such devices and, when designing the so-called "presentment clause" in Article 1, Section 7, forbade them ( Immigration and Naturalization Service v. Chadha). And from a particular par­tisan perspective it is understandably frustrating, simply because the required number of states had not yet ratified the Equal Rights Amendment, to be denied the power to pro­mote the cause of sexual equality; but frustration alone cannot justify a judicial attempt to preclude the necessity of for­mal ratification, as Justice Brennan is said to have wished to do. In Frontiero v. Richardson (411 U.S. 677, 1973) the Supreme Court was divided on the issue of whether sex, like race, should be treated as a suspect classification. We are told that Justice Brennan circulated a draft opinion in which he proposed to declare classification by sex virtually impermissi­ble and that he knew this would have the effect of "enacting" the pending ERA. "But Brennan was accustomed to having the Court out in front, leading any civil rights movement," a major publication stated. Hence, we are further told, he saw "no reason to wait several years for the states to ratify the amendment." No reason, that is, other than the fact, which Brennan implicitly acknowledged, that the Constitu­tion as then written, and which had not yet been rewritten by the only people authorized to rewrite it, did not support the role he would have the Court hand down.

Those who would use "convenience" or "frustration" as reason, or who insist that it lies within the powers of the Court (or the Congress or the Executive) to effect constitutional change, can be charged with a lack of respect for the principles on which, as Marshall wisely observed: "the whole American fabric has been erected."

We are told that it is unreasonable - even foolish - to expect that the Framers could have written a Constitution suitable alike for a society of husbandman and a society of multinational corporations, to say nothing of one as well adapted to the age of the musket and sailing ship as to the age of intercontinental nuclear-tipped missiles. As the problems have changed, the argument goes, so must the manner in which they are confronted and solved, and the Constitution cannot be allowed to stand in the way. Indeed, there is no reason to allow it to stand in the way, we are told, because the Framers intended it to be flexible. And we are told that John Marshall would support this position. But it was Marshall, in McCulloch v. Maryland, who stated: "Throughout this vast republic, from the St. Croix to the Gulf of Mexico, from the Atlantic to the Pacific, revenue is to be collected and expended, armies are to be marched and supported." The United States, in this view was not intended to be a simple society of husbandmen, and Marshall Clearly saw that the Constitution empowered Congress to do what was required to meet the crises of the Republic, and to maintain the Constitutional structure intended by the Framers, changing it only when such change would be in keeping with the structure itself.

That the American Constitution is long-lived, has enduring qualities, and was intended for the ages cannot be doubted. That it was founded on enduring principles, and that it was based on the authority of a people who are sovereign has been attested to by many of its leaders. That it can be changed when, and if, the people ordain such change is a part of its own provisions. For these reasons, it can be said to be a "Living Constitution" - but let that not be claimed by those who would use the language to subvert the structure.

Our Ageless Constitution - Part VII (1987) (Publisher: W. David Stedman Associates; W. D. Stedman & La Vaughn G. Lewis, Eds.) ISBN 0-937047-01-5       (Essay adapted by Editors for publication in this Volume in consultation with Dr. Walter Berns from Berns' article by the same title in National Forum, The Phi Kappa Phi Journal, Fall 1984)


6 posted on 06/29/2012 9:39:04 AM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: All
The GOP is nothing without the tea party.
7 posted on 06/29/2012 9:40:16 AM PDT by Signalman ( November, 2012-The End of an Error)
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To: listenhillary
I was moved to tears when the Supreme Court affirmed the Affordable Care Act, because I know that other families won’t have to face the terror and heartache we knew.

No they won't, because their "Laurens" will go straight to the death panels.

8 posted on 06/29/2012 9:46:10 AM PDT by Ezekiel (The Obama-nation began with the Inauguration of Desolation.)
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To: Signalman
And thanks to John Roberts, the Democrats who want us all to know how popular individual portions of Obamacare are, will now have to campaign on “vote for us to save the biggest tax increase in American history that 60% of Americans want repealed.”

Frankly, I think that was Justice Roberts' intention, all along.

9 posted on 06/29/2012 9:54:10 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Signalman

It’s a load of crap. We can donate all the money we want, elect all the Republicans we want, take all the branches of government that we can, and they will do little more than window dressing when it comes to rolling back the Marxist cancer eating away at our country. What little they might accomplish is out the window the next time a Democrat gets in charge of even a single branch, because they have no scruples and the GOP has no will to fight them.


10 posted on 06/29/2012 10:32:17 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Signalman

11 posted on 06/29/2012 12:20:52 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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To: Signalman

Once Obama has been sent packing and the Congress is back in Republican hands, the TEA Party needs to do one of two things. Either gain control of the Republican Party, or become the new conservative party. If we don’t, we’ll be facing the same ol’ crap in future elections.


12 posted on 06/29/2012 12:37:54 PM PDT by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of LibertyI'm st! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: listenhillary

You couldn’t be more wrong.

My god-daughter, a beautiful and bright child was diagnosed with epilepsy at age 3. She had mals, grand mals with several episodes daily for 15 years continuing to today. Throughout that time she had the best care money could buy. Her parents were still heart broken and they devoted themselves to her treatment and what little happiness they could bring her.

Her condition was not made better by her parent’s strong health coverage because epilepsy is not curable and it is not always successfully treated.

So your blaming your troubles on lack of access to better health coverage is misguided. Even if you had better coverage it would have made no difference.

Sorry to be so harsh but there are plenty of resources out there for parents that have this tragic condition come into their lives.

Obamacare would have done nothing for your daughter.

In case you didn’t know, you live in one of the most taxed countries in the world where everything you purchase is inflated in price by at least 30% by federal taxation. The heavy tax and regulatory burden on you and your fellows leaves job opportunities scarce and forces jobs to be taken overseas.

I suggest you focus on what makes the government more efficient and more limited. Growing government and making them pay our bills leads to insolvency and downgrading. Obamacare has been tried in many socialist countries and the result is always the same, the health providers find ways to turn people away, throw pills at people or schedule people for appointments months out. Obamacare will be no different. But Obamacare will make the US healthcare system worse by eliminating alternatives. We will have our choice of poor quality healthcare or worse.


13 posted on 06/29/2012 2:16:29 PM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: Hostage

You are replying to David Axelrod’s sob stories/plea for money to elect Obama that I received in a email from the Obama campaign.

I couldn’t be more wrong?


14 posted on 06/29/2012 4:50:50 PM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: Hostage

You are replying to David Axelrod’s sob stories/plea for money to elect Obama that I received in a email from the Obama campaign.

I couldn’t be more wrong?


15 posted on 06/29/2012 4:51:51 PM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: listenhillary

Ok my bad. Thanks for the clarification.


16 posted on 06/29/2012 5:36:32 PM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: Hostage

I’ve done it myself before.


17 posted on 06/29/2012 7:01:14 PM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: LadyEleanor

I am awake!


18 posted on 06/29/2012 7:47:27 PM PDT by cherry (Catholics for Romney)
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To: Boogieman
seriously, either move to the Phillipines to that paradise that millions have moved away from or just be quiet...

so you're angry...so you're depressed..so you're hopeless....so you can't find a single constructive thing to do....

who the heck cares...

the rest of us are trying to buck up...

we are awake and we know its a monumental task but we will not slither away in despair like you seem to have done.

19 posted on 06/29/2012 7:51:12 PM PDT by cherry (Catholics for Romney)
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To: cherry

I’m not hopeless, I just don’t put my hope in these worthless politicians, or judges, or Presidential candidates. If that works for ya, go with it.


20 posted on 06/29/2012 8:31:32 PM PDT by Boogieman
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