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To: Question_Assumptions; shroudie; NYer; elbucko
To a large degree, what I was referring to was the depiction of Veronica's Veil, which is what a lot of people were expecting to see during the Middle Ages, not the necessarily the faint images. I honestly don't know enough of Veronica's Veil but your information is certainly interesting.

I got that, Q_A.

I was intrigued by the announcement that they had FOUND Veronica's veil... the real thing, not another painted copy.

Here is a picture of the "Veronica's Veil" that is kept in St. Peter's Basilica...

The Veil in St. Peter's is now thought (although not admitted by Church officials) to be a poor copy of the veil that was stolen in the early 1600s.

It is known that the glass covers of the reliquary which held the Veronica and which dated from 1350 were broken, according to documents, before 1618. These glass covers were two parallel pieces of glass, that undoubtedly enabled the image of the Face of Christ to be seen from both sides of the Cloth. One bit of evidence in favor of this hypothesis concerning a theft of the image is contained in the chips of glass which can be identified on the lower edge of the Holy Face of Manoppello.

There is also iconographic proof: Before 1616 all the copies of the Veronica had, as does the Holy Face (the newly rediscovered veil) , its eyes open, while the few images which have come to us after this date show the eyes closed. Those few in the twentieth century who have been able to examine the cloth preserved in St. Peter’s, in the little chapel which opens up above the statue of Veronica - at the column southwest of the cupola - affirm that it is a square cloth, bright in color, not transparent, on which no features can be made out. (7) This is another element that leads one to think that the original is no longer there. After all, the last public showing dates back to the years 1600-1601. Following that, Pope Paul V (1604-1621) and Pope Urban VIII (1623-1644) prohibited all copies. What is more, in 1629 Pope Urban decreed the destruction of all existing copies.

However it was noted that the Vatican's "Veronica's Veil" no longer looked like the copies. It had always been noted that Veronica's Veil was an image of "no colors" yet the Veil now on display in the reliquary was a brilliantly colored image. Over the years since then, the colors, like almost all early tempera paintings, have blackened to obscurity. The theory is that the veil was stolen and the Vatican replaced it with a copy so as to "not disappoint the pilgrims who came to venerate it" and make donations...

The image you linked to is most likely what the fake Veronica's Veil retained in St. Peter's Basilica once looked like... note the patterns of the hair and the beard compared to the cut-out gilt masking above, and more importantly the bright lifelike color, that was NOT on the original.

Now, compare the iconic image to the newly re-discovered byssus veil from the Sanctuary of the Sacred Face, in the monestary in Manoppello, and note that the icon could most likely have been copied from that veil.

And, from the sublime to the totally ridiculous... as long as we are talking about millieus and artistic expectations, I thought I might include a modern iconic rendering of Veronica's Veil... by Artist (?) David Gilhooly:


92 posted on 02/18/2005 2:46:13 PM PST by Swordmaker (Tagline now open, please ring bell.)
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To: Swordmaker
Thanks for the information. And, yes, that Veronica's Veil copy is what I was thinking of an, yes, I think it shows what I'd expect of a Medieval copy. They really weren't up to the level of modern forgers.
94 posted on 02/18/2005 3:35:12 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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