P.S. Masks Don’t Work

MOTUS A.D. ^ | 7-27-20 | MOTUS

[NOBO2012]

Hmmm, I wonder what could possibly be going on in Oregon with respect to this spike in COVID cases?

And Washington?

Don’t you dare suggest that the spread is due to peaceful protests and riots. They’re all wearing masks.

Just look at that masked up Wall of Mothers

Once you brush all the superfluous details away what strikes me most about the  current spate of riots/not riots occurring in our cities is the fact that our police are behaving just like Europe’s gendarmes have been for years – almost decades -  now.

Which is to say they’re just there to make sure the fires don’t get too big.  If they were allowed to do anything truly effective the riots would have stopped years ago. America: don’t be like Europe. We’re better than that…if we actually follow our Constitution.

MAGA!

P.S. Two things: 1. If we can reopen for rioting we can reopen for commerce, and 2. Masks don’t work.

Posted from: MOTUS A.D.

[Tallguy]

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

That’s because when you take into account the normal amount of “Deaths from all Causes” you find out that COVID is only a marginal contributor and that many of the elderly that have died infected with COVID probably would have died of other causes. Check-out the graph!

[CodeToad]

Masks are to gain our obedience so they can then gain our servitude.

[Svartalfiar]

If you can smell any odor wearing a mask, it is not working.

That's a very bad argument to make. You typical N95 mask is designed to filter out 95% of particles .3microns (micrometers) or larger. Most odor molecules are a couple nanometers to hundreds of picometers in size. Coronaviri are mostly around 125 nanometers. But, they aren't free-floating, there's generally large numbers of them encased in aerosolized droplets from you breathing, which can be anywhere from .5 microns to molecule sized.

To put those in the same units:
Mask filter: 300nm
Coronavirus: 125nm
Odor molecules: .1-5nm

[Svartalfiar]

If you can smell a fart through your mask it is ineffective.. Thus with the probable exception the typical fireman’s respirator, they are all ineffective. Easy-peasey. Just my $.02 (and yes, I do have two penny coins).

See my post #63 above. If you have a fart mask and still smell it, you're right. But a fart is way smaller than anything most masks are designed to filter out.

[Svartalfiar]

There is no reason a mask would increase the viral load.

With a properly sealed mask, at a small enough filter level, with consistent replacement with a sanitary mask, AND proper decon procedures for doffing, you are correct.

[SkyDancer]

I smelled an odor wearing an N95 mask, that’s why I brought it up.

[SkyDancer]

If you can do that, the COVID will pass right on through.

[Svartalfiar]

The point is that not all N95 masks have the valve. That’s why it’s described as “optional” in your link. My impression is that most N95s do not have the valve.

This depends on the sourcing. I would think that most people that bought N95 masks likely got them from Lowe's/HomeDepot/Ace/etc, designed for sawdust and such. I don't think I've ever seen valved ones there.

But like Yardstick said, most people are either wearing the blue/white surgical-style ones that can't seal to the face and are useless, or the "fashionable" cloth ones that have who knows what kind of filtration level. And almost certainly no testing or certification for that.

[CharlesWayneCT]

Wearing masks does NOTHING for you if you are physically locking your arms together. Touching was the FIRST thing you were supposed to stop, then you are supposed to do 6-foot distancing.

Also, where are all those women going to the bathroom, and how are they washing their hands?

[Yardstick]

No, I am correct without all of that. If you have X number of viruses in your body and you exhale Y number of viruses into the mask, you do not then have greater than X number of viruses in your body if you reinhale Y number of viruses from the mask. This is elementary. It’s embarrassing that we’re even having to argue about this stuff.

[Svartalfiar]

No, I am correct without all of that. If you have X number of viruses in your body and you exhale Y number of viruses into the mask, you do not then have greater than X number of viruses in your body if you reinhale Y number of viruses from the mask. This is elementary. It’s embarrassing that we’re even having to argue about this stuff.

- Improper face seal. If the mask isn't sealed to the face, 60-80% of airflow doesn't get filtered. So you're still breathing in any virus particles in the air around you, and if infected, are breathing a large amount of them out into your environment.

- Small enough filter. N95 masks are only rated to be effective down to .3 microns, and usually do a good job down to .2 microns. But there's a lot of aerosolized body fluid in clumps smaller than that, which can contain the virus. So even an N95 with a proper seal is still passing through more than enough virus particles to infect someone, and every breath adds to the viral load you're putting out. Wearing a bandanna or a scarf (both accepted face "protection") means you aren't filtering out any but the biggest air droplets, so yea...

- Consistent replacement. Have you ever looked at your house's air filters, or do you have someone else doing it? After a certain amount of time, those get clogged up and very inefficient at allowing airflow / filtering. Masks are the same: as it filters out any particles from the air, or the inside fills with warm damp breath, the mask becomes more ineffective, as well as becomes a breeding ground for all sorts of stuff. I believe Legionella is the big one that I've started hearing more about recently. N95s should be trashed after each use, or worn at the very most for eight hours continuous or intermittent. Also, they should only be reused 5-8 times, if used in a capacity where reuse is safe (tuberculosis patients, sawdust, etc). Any kind of bodily fluids, touching the inside, or getting the mask wet generally compromises the mask's effectiveness.

- Proper decon. Obviously, no one follows any kind of good decontamination procedures. The mask is there to filter out viri, so anytime you touch it, you're touching the exact place where the virus has a built-up presence. So, taking it off needs to be done without touching the outside, or touching with gloves/other disposable protection. Not placing in in biohazard disposal means all those viri can easily get to other places (all over your purse, your car, your pocket, the trash can that exposes sanitation workers, the parking lot where someone will eventually pick it up, etc). If it did save you from catching the virus, then how are you supposed to keep them contained by reusing the mask?


So yea. There's plenty of ways wearing a mask can increase viral load, or at a minimum not lower it. Follow all four of my points, and yea, the extremely small chance you're exposed will be very unlikely to infect you. But who actually does some of those, much less all of them?

[Svartalfiar]

I smelled an odor wearing an N95 mask, that’s why I brought it up.

Yes, and that doesn't necessarily mean your mask isn't working. If you want to not smell through it, you need something with activated carbon filters or a half/full face respirator with canisters that are designed to handle odors. There are very few, if any, smells that have molecules even close to a size that N95's will filter.

[SkyDancer]

Just saying since I see a lot of people wearing those medical masks.

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

I stand corrected.

[Yardstick]

Well, I’m open to the possibility that masks may do little or nothing to reduce the viral load but I disagree that they would increase it.

BTW, the 0.3 micron rating for N95 masks doesn’t mean they don’t filter well below 0.3 microns. They just certify the masks at 0.3 microns because that’s where they’re least effective. If they’re 95% effective at 0.3 microns then they’ll be better than that for other size particles both larger and smaller. For smaller particles the filtering is accomplished through electrostatic attraction and not mechanical grating. It actually gets more effective as you move below 0.3 microns.

[Svartalfiar]

Just saying since I see a lot of people wearing those medical masks.

Yup. While they may be slightly more effective than a bandanna or scarf, that's not saying much.

[Svartalfiar]

Well, I’m open to the possibility that masks may do little or nothing to reduce the viral load but I disagree that they would increase it.

Yes, true. The only way they'll really increase viral load is if the filter is contaminated, and then not disposed of properly. My points were really all that they don't decrease it to a significant factor.


BTW, the 0.3 micron rating for N95 masks doesn’t mean they don’t filter well below 0.3 microns. They just certify the masks at 0.3 microns because that’s where they’re least effective. If they’re 95% effective at 0.3 microns then they’ll be better than that for other size particles both larger and smaller. For smaller particles the filtering is accomplished through electrostatic attraction and not mechanical grating. It actually gets more effective as you move below 0.3 microns.

Somewhat, yes. Here's one of my posts in another thread from about two weeks ago that looked at filtration efficiencies. I'm not reposting the whole thing here (some very good data if you read my post, even more if you follow the links), but here's the chart from that. Note that the 10^3 line is your 1 micron, and 10^2 is the .1 micron measurement.