A scenario for the second civil war

Forward Observer ^ | August 30, 2016 | Matt Bracken

[papertyger]

You are aware that he sent what the Confederate government believed to be a belligerent Naval force to stand 10 miles off the coast of Charleston? Multiple warships and armed men were sent, in clear violation of the armistice the two sides had with each other.

Refs for research? I've never heard of this angle before.

[Crusher138]

I have been pondering a split based on monetary issues.

Let’s say that the printing of worthless money combined with the discovery that our gold reserves are much less than expected or reported leads to hyper-inflation.

In response a state - let’s say Texas - decides to protect their citizens’ finances by issuing a gold based currency that works “side by side” with US dollars. The stability of this new currency leads many to cash out and buy Texas Lone Stars.

The feds get upset and threaten to cut off Federal Aid. The State of Texas decides to confiscate Federal property as financial recompense. The Feds send in troops to secure their “property.”

Things go downhill rapidly from there.

[amorphous]

“This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666. "

Not that I think I have any special wisdom, far from it, but it may be that this prophecy has already been fulfilled, at least on one level (most prophecy has multiple levels).

...calculate the number of the beast...

6 + 6 + 6 = 18, 1 + 8 = "9"

Calculating the Number for Your Name

...for it is the number of a man...

The beast is government. Government (the beast) has issued each of us our number (i.e., our SSN). Our number is composed of "9" digits (i.e., 'the number of a man')

What are the odds?

It goes without saying how difficult living in our country today, would be without a SSN.

[DiogenesLamp]

You’re still trying miserably to resurrect your absurd assertion. Of course secession isn’t precluded by a union that was freely joined, but THAT is not what happened. Lincoln went against all the wishes of the founders, IMO.

A right granted by God may not be forsworn by scribblings on paper by men.

There is no means by which you can legally bind a people and compel them to give up a right granted by God.

The founders of this nation clearly recognized that Independence is a right granted by God, and as such it may not be subjugated to "contracts", or "agreements" to abrogate it.

It is absolute, and unalienable.

[Charles Martel]

In the case of the United States, it was still an open question as of 1859 what degree of sovereignty actually lies with the several states which formed These United States. The war settled that question.

Seems like the question is open for review each time hostilities flare.

[B4Ranch]

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WHAT IS A PATRIOT?

PATRIOTS are not "Revolutionaries" trying to overthrow the government of the United States.

PATRIOTS are "Counter-Revolutionaries" trying to prevent the government of the United States,
from overthrowing the Constitution of the United States. - Unknown Author

[JimRed]

I can’t quite rationalize how they’ll speed up that ending, but I’m sure it won’t be thru straight confiscation: too many are just looking for a frontal assault and want a showdown; the Left knows to avoid that.

A head to head confrontation with better armed and trained troops is not advisable. We need to discover those WHO GIVE THE ORDERS. Learn who they are, where they live and work, their travel habits and recreation, their vulnerabilities. They must have "accidents" or simply disappear. Cut off the head and the snake will die.

[Gaffer]

You just are disintegrating in your arguments, however I might agree or disagree with them, from the original assertion and definition I put forth you felt you just had to contradict.

You have a beef with me about something else (we both know what) and that prompted you to enter into all this - and you lose.

[DiogenesLamp]

You told me about documents signed by people likely dead when Lincoln pursued that war.

I gave you a link to a document written by Lincoln himself in his own handwriting in which he asserted that secession is the right of all people.

You just do not like that fact.

[pleasenotcalifornia]

I would like to add that under the premises and scenarios written by Bracken that many police and armed forces personnel would refuse to carry out their orders to disarm their fellow citizens.

Therefore the government would seek to bring in foreign police and armed forces to supplant our domestic police and troops. Added to this would be a government drive to recruit police and armed forces out of the millions of Muslim refugees that will be here.

Hillary and friends would have no qualms about crushing her domestic opponents in a cruel and brutal manner by whatever means necessary.

[Gaffer]

What I see is a largely unreadable handwritten document that speaks of “The President” in the third person. Further, it has no date nor signature.

[DiogenesLamp]

Refs for research?

I'll have to search them up again, but in my experience, evidence seldom convinces anyone of anything. Too many people have too much emotion invested in what they prefer to believe.

I've never heard of this angle before.

Why on earth would anyone on the Union side want people to know about this? It makes Lincoln look like a monster who deliberately triggered a war that killed 750,000 people to protect the financial interest of Wealthy Robber barons in the North East.

There is a good reason that people don't talk about those soldiers and ships Lincoln sent to Charleston. It doesn't fit the narrative they wish people to believe.

Here is one link that covers some of the material.

[DiogenesLamp]

In response a state - let’s say Texas - decides to protect their citizens’ finances by issuing a gold based currency that works “side by side” with US dollars. The stability of this new currency leads many to cash out and buy Texas Lone Stars.

They cannot do that. The US Constitution specifically prohibits a state from producing currency.

If such a thing is attempted, I predict that the power blocks in the North East (and now elsewhere) in whose interests this Federal spending fountain has been gushing for the last century and a half or so, would launch an immediate war through their agents in control of FedZilla.

If you dare expose the Ponzi scheme they have created by their support of borrowing and spending Federal policy, they will attack you with everything they've got, which means everything the Federal Government has, plus the New York based media system.

[DiogenesLamp]

You just are disintegrating in your arguments, however I might agree or disagree with them, from the original assertion and definition I put forth you felt you just had to contradict.

My arguments are clear and correct. If anything it is your understanding of the concepts involved that has disintegrated.

You have a beef with me about something else (we both know what) and that prompted you to enter into all this - and you lose.

When I noticed it was you making these arguments, I thought to myself "This guy is wrong about this as well."

If you scan through my posting history, you will find I have been making these very same points for a long time before you and I ever conflicted on the Corrupt Brazilian police issue.

[papertyger]

A second civil war would be painful and costly....

I'm not so sure about that.

I think, of necessity, any such war would be more asymmetrical and "stealth" than in times past.

[Jim Noble]

I think to have a full CWII the chain of command would have to be divided over the correct response to events, as was the case in 1861.

[Gaffer]

And what you don’t address is my question about authenticity, date and provenance of your “evidence”. Show me the date, who signed it and in what context it is cited where you found it.

By your own admission you are thread jumping http://www.freerepublic.com/help.htm#guidelines
and continuing some kind of vendetta that is absurd.

[DiogenesLamp]

What I see is a largely unreadable handwritten document that speaks of “The President” in the third person. Further, it has no date nor signature.

Yes, Lincoln's handwriting is messy, but you are grasping at straws in your attempt to reject the fact that Lincoln wrote those words. Lincoln did in fact write those words.

If you can't read it, I gave you the link to the source, and you can just hit the button that says "Transcript."

Do a text search on the Transcript, and you will find the relevant text.

After that, you will have to argue that people entrusted with keeping some of Lincolns documents are liars or something.

If you are an honest man, you will come to the conclusion that in 1848 Lincoln believed people had a right to secede from governments that they believed didn't suit their interests, but by 1861 he had decided to claim that he didn't believe this.

[Gaffer]

Please tell me what Lincoln did, NOT in 1848, but during the conduct of what we seem to dispute as the Civil War even Ken Burns acknowledges. Go away

[DiogenesLamp]

And what you don’t address is my question about authenticity, date and provenance of your “evidence”. Show me the date, who signed it and in what context it is cited where you found it.

It's from a speech he gave to congress. Do you expect Lincoln to sign speeches he wrote for himself?

You can grasp for straws that this is not an authentic statement from Lincoln, but the truth is that it is.