Posted on 02/10/2016 8:13:15 PM PST by Ultra Sonic 007
There's a clean question on the table regarding dual citizenship for persons born in Canada prior to 1977 (when they changed their law to officially recognize dual nationality.)
Prior to that date, with few exceptions, you could not hold dual nationality with Canada. In other words the very act of "renouncing" Canadian Citizenship means that Cruz never held US citizenship at birth because his parents had to declare his nationality at the time he was born.
There may be exceptions that were available at the time but the law now is immaterial.
The only material fact is what the law was then, in 1970, in Canada when Cruz was born.
If his parents declared US for him then he had nothing to renounce and he has a document called a Consular Report of Birth Abroad.
This is the legal equivalent of a US Birth Certificate and Cruz either has one from the time of his birth or he does not. If he does not then he is not a US Citizen as he was never naturalized by his own admission and at birth the nation in which he was born did not recognize dual nationality.
Where is that document Cruz? Your mother's birth certificate is immaterial. What matters is whether you were declared a Canadian or US Citizen at birth and what documentation you have to prove it.
You see, in 1970 there was no "and" option.
Cruz either has that Consular Report of Birth Abroad, which is his legal proof of US Citizenship just as my Birth Certificate is mine, or he doesn't and he's not a citizen at all as his parents declared his citizenship as Canadian and the land he were born in prohibited dual nationality at the time.
If he doesn't have that document, of course, there's a little problem with the office Senator Cruz holds now, say much less his running for President.
Under today's law, the claim is viable for as long as a person lives. The law used to require US presence as a condition of citizenship retention. The law that covers Ted does have a citizenship retention requirement, but that has since been removed.
The citizenship retention under the 1952 statute was: present in the US before age 23; immediately following US presence, maintain five years of continuous presence. The five years of continuous presence is tallied only between the ages of 14 and 28.
The citizenship retention under the 1934 statute was: present in the US 5 years before the age of 21, the 5 years need not be a continuous period.
If Trump had been born in China he would not be a NBC of the US.
It seems the Cruz natural born citizenship thing has some strange history for sure.
Edward Cruz’s mother married Alan Wilson of Fort Worth Tx back in the day. They went to England where at some point they divorced. Eleanor remained in England and later on had a child that had a crib death and is buried in England. She used the last name Wilson for that child even though she was divorced and Alan Wilson says the child wasn’t his.
She later on came back to the US, hooked up with Rafael Cruz, moved to New Orleans and later Canada. Rafael filed with the Selective Service on July 26, 1967 while in New Orleans.
Their son Edward was born in Canada, Dec. 22, 1970. Later on they moved back to the US, divorced and Rafael got US Citizenship in 2005.
Following link shows:
Selective Service Registration
Voter registration Canada
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/megan-smolenyak-smolenyak/ted-cruz-and-the-question_b_8937948.html
Edward Cruz birth certificate
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/headlines/20160116-cruz-family-drama-mothers-first-husband-is-an-ex-pat-texan-in-london.ece
Why? Aren’t both his parents Americans? And what if China doesn’t allow born on soil citizenship? Is he a citizen of no where?
So in other words you can't answer it.
Well that’s all the proof we need. Mothers birthplace Delaware. Thanks for the link to his birth certificate. Now can the loons please stop saying he’s not a natural born citizen? Clearly he got his US citizenship through birth via his mother. Anyone saying otherwise is just trying to misdirect and confuse people (or they are idiots).
The Framers wanted to protect that one office from divided loyalties. It’s less likely that a one hundred percent American will empathize with America’s enemies.
Why was Cruz the ONLY US senator who participated in the foreign invader welcome party? Why was he the ONLY one who thought the best way to stem the never-ending flood of foreign invaders was to have a high ranking US politician gift them with soccer balls and teddy bears?
What you don’t find with a child born in the USA is a requirement for anything before the age of anything. This is the argument of many who assert that this is citizenship by law rather than by birth. Even Bobby Jindal, who was conceived in India by Indian parents but birthed in the USA, has no residency or paperwork requirement to assert his US citizenship.
However, that’s really not the main issue for me with Cruz. The issue for me with Cruz is that a super-lawyer with Canadian birth certificate in hand did not know until age 43 that he had Canadian citizenship, and I discovered it by googling for an hour or two prior to Cruz ever having announced his discovery.
I don’t believe him.
Just because China declares that someone on the other side of the world is suddenly a Chinese citizen, it doesn’t mean anything at all to that US citizen.
Cruz’s situation is different.
A baby is born in Canada. With just that information alone, the US government has no interest at all. So what? A baby is born in Canada. Big Whoop.
BUT if the parents of that baby have grounds, and the desire, to declare that baby as a US citizen, then they do have to do paperwork at the US consulate. If they do not do that, how is the US government to know or care about that particular baby?
So, if at birth Cruz was a US citizen, it had to be noted somewhere in some official document. And Cruz has never produced a Consulate Record of Birth. Does he have one?
Without a Consulate Record of Birth, the US government has no way of knowing he exists. A claim of citizenship in the US then becomes difficult to pursue.
It really is a serious question, and it deserves a serious answer.
Finally, a common sense explanation of the circumstances surrounding Raphael’s birth in Canada.
Easy to comprehend by even the most rabid Cruz supporter.
Well done!....(Touching the brim of my hat).
For some of us, for Cruz to say he’s natural born so move on is reminiscent of Obama. Why doesn’t Cruz ever explain to us ignorant voters how he is natural born?
Because he can’t. He has decided to play us for fools, and take his chances.
That my friends..is leadership. (sarc)
‘Why doesn’t the Donald sue and have Cruz declared ineligible?’
You would like Trump to spend all his time and energy suing Cruz before Cruz is the nominee, wouldn’t you? You want Trump to do the job for the RATS (suing Cruz when/if Cruz is the nominee)? Are you really a democRAT?
If your honorable Cruz is so ‘constitutional’ and so sure he is an nbc why doesn’t he ask the court to clarify it once and for all, NOW, to settle it before the RATS attack him on this issue? Instead he is doing what obola does all these years - burying, evading, ridiculing the issue!
So Cruz can choose to use his birth in Canada to be the PM there.
AND Cruz can choose to use his mother’s USA citizenship to be the USA president!
Way to go! Cruz can be USA president for the next 4 to 8 years, then go back to Canada to be the PM for Canada!
After that he will be the North American supreme leader!
Just like obola can be the Indonesian emperor after this, or be the Kenyan king and ultimately be the almighty one world king !
Let me clarify. There may be a case to be made, but thus far the attempts on FR have been pitiful.
The fact is this: in the absence of a positive judicial determination that Ted Cruz is an NBC, the Democrat Party, with a complicit mass media, will do everything in their power to muddy this issue and convince the electorate that there's a problem.
I don't know that there is a way to get that judicial determination. Individuals filing to have him removed won't have standing. The only court that could help would be the Supreme Court, and they aren't likely to take the case. There has been one lower-level attempt to remove Cruz from a ballot (Illinois) and Cruz won that one, but that was really just a limited ruling on the requirements to get on that ballot and sidestepped that NBC issue. I don't believe it is possible to obtain a comprehensive judicial determination.
Democrats and the media hammering Cruz with this issue might cost him independent and Democratic crossover voters, as well low-information voters, and these are exactly the voters whose support will be necessary for Cruz to win the general election.
For the past 8 years, being a birther has been one step below homophobe with this crowd. A generous supply of ridicule along with and explanation that the same law that recognized Obama as eligible also applies to Cruz (different sub-paragraph, same heading.) It's a problem, but I think it can be overcome.
The fact is that Donald Trump has captured the attention of the electorate much more effectively than Cruz has, and Trump is getting support and enthusiasm from demographics that Cruz could only dream of.
That is absolutely true. To use a football analogy, Trump has run all over the field and built a healthy lead. It's still fairly early (maybe late 2nd quarter), but time is becoming a factor because of the size lead. I'm not sure Cruz can catch Trump without a few turn-overs. That said, Trump looks like ball security could be an issue and he's capable of making a couple of big mistakes to swing the game back.
I do like a Cruz vs Dem matchup better than Trump vs Dem because I think Cruz is better able to articulate the folly of their socialist economic plans. I think Trumps blunt talk will sound less presidential the closer it gets to the Oval Office, and people will have second thoughts/buyer's remorse.
I know it's possible the Trump train may just continue to build up momentum, but I really think his act will wear thin and people will start to see the emperor has no clothes. (I'm hoping it happens in March rather than October.) As enthusiastic has his supporters are, I see a large, equally enthusiastic group of detractors who will never vote for him and will use all of his quirks as opportunities to ridicule him and the Republican party as a whole. Most are holding their tongues now in the hopes that he actually gets the nomination.
Cruz did formally renounce his Canadian citizenship to ally your fears (or ruin your plans, depending on how you meant this :-) ) No, I don't think he was under any obligation to do so. I don't know if he would have been eligible there anyway and I really don't care about Canadian law because it doesn't impact U.S. law.
I am all for Obama going to Kenya or Indonesia to be king/emperor. I will contribute toward the plane ticket as long as we can be assured it's one-way.
No, it’s just your argument doesn’t work, there is nothing to answer. Trump wasn’t born in China, however Cruz was born in Canada. China has no claim to Trump. It really falls apart right there. There is no “What if” that is even remotely factual. Plus American Law recognizes “valid” citizenship from other countries. Cruz was a valid Canadian and has renounced that citizenship, which means he recognized it. Whereas Trump hold no other citizenship elsewhere.
How bout this?
What if...Obama was born in Kenya to an American mother but foreign father. Would he be able to run/serve under the Constitution. Cause that’s the argument you have put forth.
Do you agree there is no issues with the above statement and that Obama should be in office?
As of Monday my name was placed by the California Secretary of State on the June 7th presidential primary ballot line of the AIP.
Which means that at this point in time I almost certainly have legal standing to challenge the natural born citizen status of both Cruz and Rubio.
I’m not saying that I will do so. But it’s certainly very tempting, I will admit, because I don’t believe either of them to be constitutionally-qualified.
Still weighing the pros and cons. And there are most certainly some of both.
But whether I do or not, if Cruz advances, Trump is right, he is going to be hit by a flurry of suits regardless.
Congratulations on getting on the CA ballot. Good luck with your effort.
There is still a ways to go before the final vote is cast for the GOP nominee. But I think you
are correct about suits if Cruz is the nominee. Whether they get anywhere is unsure.
Thank you!
Huh? China can give citizenship to whoever they want to. If they want to make Trump a citizen they can. So if they did that does that mean Trump can’t be President?
Why was Trump the only Republican running who gave millions to Hillary, Bill, and several other liberal politicians? Why was Trump the only person trying to exert eminent domain over an old ladies house to build a parking garage for his casino?
See how that works?
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