Posted on 01/31/2016 9:23:41 AM PST by Sioux-san
There are several reasons why we have chosen not to dig into this specific aspect of this event, after posting the first three research articles. Here are the ones we are comfortable stating:
The freedom continuum has two diametrically opposing forces on either end. On one end, the left, if you travel outward from democracy to socialism to communism eventually you arrive at totalitarianism. The absolute power of government over the individual. The maximum amount of liberty lost.
On the oppositional end, the right, again if you travel from democracy to a constitutional republic and keep going, eventually you arrive at a place absent of any government. This is anarchy. This is law of the jungle, survival of the fittest. Mad Max type societal tribe formation.
Neither path, left nor right, is good when taken to its ultimate conclusion.
However, the freedom continuum is not linear.
(Excerpt) Read more at theconservativetreehouse.com ...
I wasn't referring to when he first drops his hands, now that I review the video.
Neither you nor I are guiltless of making casual observations in this matter. :)
The difference between 50 feet and 30 feet is a long way in handgun shooting and Tasering.
Once again, when we get the sound, it will sort a lot of this out.
Guess we need to wait for the autopsy.
INVAR, this was not Lexington and it is not 1776.
We do not have federal troops quartered in out house. We have representation from people we elect. We do not have a King, and we have a Judicial System, and a Constitution, and a Bill of rights.
The colonists had none of those things.
The people at Lexington Green did lose...and they lost badly. It was at Concord that they turned the British around...and at that point it was open warfare.
This was not.
Lavoy was not stupid...he just made mistakes...and tragically, those mistakes cost him his life.
I have explained myself ad nauseous on this and anyone who wants to see my own feelings can simply read my own page on this on my own home page:
http://www.jeffhead.com/lavoy.htm
I pray the courts will look into the people who managed and ordered this stop when it was completely unnecessary.
We have plenty of recourse left in this country INAR...and a big one is coming this fall when we hopefully will have been successful in turning the Executive Branch over and elect a new President dedicated to turning this around.
We have done so in the past when we preplaced Carter...and the Clinton...and now we will do so again when we replace Obama.
we have already turned over the House and Senate and we need now to solidly the gains there with stronger majorities and with the type of people who will not play footsies with the liberal progressives.
Those are very real things that are within our power...which the colonists could not do at the time...so they were forced to fight.
One day we may be forced to fight. I pray we can use the means those people and many others shed their life’s blood for to turn it around short of that.
I now include Lavoy in that number. What he was protesting and defending needed doing. But he did not need to die that day...that happened more due to his mistakes than any blood lust on the part of those officers.
The man with the taser, in the left of the shot, doesn’t even has his arm up until at about 9:31, at which point he is, using the back of the truck, between 12-18 ft from Lavoy and well within taser range.
Mandatory sentencing for terrorism is not the issue. Charging them under a terrorism statute is the issue. It is a ridiculous trumped up charge.
You cannot say that it was a good shoot without the coroner’s report and the sound to the video. What seems apparent in the video is that Lavoy was put down by a taser after having been shot. The timing of those shots would determine whether it was at all justifiable. Since we can’t tell the timing ...
Also, your concluding that it was a good shot is also based on them not being shot at at the initial stop. All things being equal, I would place my money on Lavoy’s family getting a very large payout from Uncle Sam.
After reading Ray76's analysis of the speed(s) of Finicum's vehicle on the road to and into the blind curve roadblock, I'm going to agree with your chastisement of me for calling the gentleman who ran in front of Finicum's truck in the snow a "buffoon".
From Finicum's speed just before the roadblock (and coming around the blind curve), I now believe that the guy was behind the parked vehicle on the left, suddenly saw Finicum's vehicle coming around the blind curve, and realized that Finicum might strike the vehicle he was behind head-on, at speed (in the 60s, according to Ray76's analysis).
If he darted to the snowbank and up it to avoid getting mushed, it was his only play.
He'd best not have done it to intercept the truck. Then the "B" word comes back into play. :)
Well, yeah. If the drone footage did not support their narrative, it would have never been released.
Right.
As you can see in my post #136, when we first see the guy in the trees, I calculate that he's about 30 feet away from Finicum.
Nice analysis above, BTW.
Thanks. I hadn’t appreciated the distances until you started referencing the truck.
I wish this were a good shoot, and initially I thought it was. As I have watched the video more closely, the video raises more questions than it answers. As I said, I think smart money bets on the Finnicum’s getting a big payout from Uncle Sam.
If I ever find myself shooting an innocent man under the color of law I’m dropping to my knees and asking for God’s forgiveness.
Finicum did not know there was a roadblock ahead. Those manning the roadblock certainly knew he was on the way.
I'm not the one who is getting all emotional about this. I'm just commenting on what I saw. If you can't handle that, then you need to "lighten up."
How much are you willing to wager?
He did it t force Lavoy into the snow.
That was SOP, and there was already a guy on the other side for the same reason.
Lavoy would have wanted to keep at least two tires in the area (including the shoulder) that had been plowed and he would have had a hope to get by.
That guy was specifically there to make Lavoy veer just a little further to the left and into the snow so he would be stuck.
And he succeeded. He was not an idiot. He was not trying to escape. He was not dimwitted. He was doing his job.
Most people would avoid hitting someone...and most people would stop before even coming close.
Lavoy was determined to get by and so that it why it was so close.
The officers would have taken Lavoy’s willingness to do that as an intent to inflict bodily harm on them and this would have increased their adrenalin and their view of Lavoy as a threat significantly.
I have told you these things before...but you refuse to accept or believe them.
Fine.
But what I am telling you is the truth and it is SOP in such an incident where the barrow pit/drainage to the side of the road presents an opportunity for the vehicle to get stuck.
Exactly. see my post 155.
I’m done repeating myself on this.
Kiry and others are just going to believe whatever they wish.
But I will say this one more time...the officers manning that road block were not bafoons or dimwits.
They knew what they were doing and they were positioned to keep anyone from getting past.
No. We have a surveillance Police State where every movement we make and every transaction and correspondence we partake in, is collected by the government for unspecified purposes under the guise of 'security'. We cannot use our own property without permission from the State and nearly every activity we engage in is regulated and requires license.
We have representation from people we elect.
Are you kidding me???? The last 10 years more than illustrate the fact that we do not have any representation in DC. And the moment we send someone we think will serve our interests and UNDO dictatorial and Unconstitutional infringements on our Rights and the Rule of Law, they are corrupted by the Ruling Class into supporting their Statist Agenda and empowering the Beast even further.
We do not have a King
Tell that to Obama, the Democrats, the Judiciary and the GOP leadership that allow him to act like a king with impunity.
and we have a Judicial System, and a Constitution, and a Bill of rights.
Meaningless and ineffective against the velvet coup that usurped them all. Lawlessness has not been rectified or stopped. We have nothing to show for turning the House and Senate over to those who promised to stop this fundamental Marxist transformation of the country, except that the very people and party we empowered, handed a defacto dictatorship over to the Federal Beast on a silver platter, and those of us screaming about it have been held in contempt by the same.
No sir. Our recourse has been eliminated, and those with eyes to see are about to discover just how much in the coming months given all the hints and clues coming out of the mouths of the Ruling Class.
The colonists had none of those things.
No. They had a religious and moral foundation with an innate understanding of where their natural born rights came from and recognized that as soon as the king sets himself up above the Moral Law, he ceased to have any legitimacy and unkinged himself in the tyrant, upon which they had a duty to resist and throw off. We have none of those things today.
Look Jeff, I can appreciate your wishful thinking in terms of where we are as a Constitutional Republic and what is left of our rights.
I no longer share that view.
The evidence each day is overwhelming that the very institutions you think safeguard our God-given rights, are corrupted beyond redemption, repair or restoration. The rot is to the core. Those institutions you cite, exist to serve the State, not the individual; serve a Fascist gravy train, not independent Capitalists.
Your faith in the courts is as misplaced as those who assert electing the next politician will save us. Obama and the Democrats did not spend the last decade stacking it with Marxist/Maoist/Leftist Radicals by mistake or accident. And those are LIFETIME appointments sir, most of them.
I would think that you are I right now, are where Adams and Dickinson were in terms of sending another Olive Branch Petition to the Crown. Adams saw where things truly stood while Dickinson and those like him put their faith and confidence in what no longer existed to secure their rights.
Lavoy is just one more in a litany of victims of a tyrannical state that with each day is growing to the point it will by necessity consume absolutely everything in order to sustain itself and will not tolerate any dissent or allegiance to anything but itself.
bkmk
He may have wanted to evade the roadblock but I do not think he intended to deliberately hit anyone. Other than that I think we agree.
I am willing to wager all of the money Hillary return’s to foreign governments as improper donations to the Clinton Global Initiative. :)
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