Mall of America Protected from Jihadist attack by Gun Free Zone Signs

Gun Watch ^ | 23 February, 2015 | Dean Weingarten

[marktwain]

A Somali affiliate of al Qaeda has called for attacks against Western shopping malls, which they see as soft targets.   The call for attacks was seen in a video celebrating the attack on the Westgate shopping mall in Nairobi, Kenya.  From ibtimes.com:

“If just a handful of mujahedeen [militant jihadists] fighters could bring Kenya to a complete standstill for nearly a week, just imagine what the dedicated mujahedeen could do in the West to American or Jewish shopping centers across the world,” a masked gunman says toward the end of the video. “What if such an attack were to occur in the Mall of America in Minnesota? Or the West Edmonton Mall in Canada? Or in London's Oxford Street?”

England is notorious for the number of radicalized Muslim immigrants that are in the country, as is Minneapolis, Minnesota, where a large population of Somali Muslims has been imported and resettled by the American  government.  Edmonton, Canada, also has a significant population of Somali Muslim immigrants from which jihadis are being recruited.

The threats seem credible, but as people are banned from carrying firearms in all three locations, the "gun free zone" signs may provide some protection.

 Virtually all of Canada and England are Gun Free Zones, as self defense is not considered a valid reason for citizens to carry guns in those countries.  But a crucial difference exists in the United States.   The malls in Canada and England lack the protection of gun free zone signs.    In comparison, the Mall of America, in Minneapolis, has particularly large and prominent gun free zone signs, as shown above.

While gun free zone signs have failed in a number of locations, it may be that they were not large enough or prominent enough.  John Lott, an academic who has studied these shootings, makes this statement. 

At some time, people have to recognize that, with just two exceptions, at least since 1950, all the multiple victim public shootings in the United States have taken place where guns are banned.  And you see these individuals, they surely act as if they're trying their best to find areas where victims can't defend themselves.

But Lott does not examine the effect of the gun ban signs' prominence or visibility.  Could it be that the attackers simply did not know that guns were banned in the area of their planned attack?  Wouldn't the large, highly visible signs at the Mall of America offer more protection?   I found this documentary on YouTube:

 Link to YouTube Documentary on Gun Free Zones

In spite of Dr. Lott's research, there have been only 18 documented cases where armed citizens stopped mass murders before the body count grew large.  

The most prominent jihadist attack on a mall was the attack on the Westgate mall in Nairobi, Kenya.  While guns were banned in the mall, there is no evidence that there were any signs to inform the Jihadis that guns were banned there.  It may be that some jihadis cannot read, so signs with the prominent red circle and slash are likely best.   As many jihadis like to use AK47 rifles, perhaps a sign with the AK and a red circle and slash would work better, as a jihadi might not understand that a sign showing a pistol being banned would also mean that an AK is not allowed.

After the Westgate attack, the Interpol Secretary General, Ronald Noble, said that we had a choice: either create intense levels of fortress like security for public places, or consider having an armed citizenry.   Clearly, he overlooked the potential of bigger and more visible Gun Free Zone signs.  From abcnews.go.com:

Interpol Secretary General Ronald Noble said today the U.S. and the rest of the democratic world is at a security crossroads in the wake of last month’s deadly al-Shabab attack at a shopping mall in Nairobi, Kenya – and suggested an answer could be in arming civilians.

In an exclusive interview with ABC News, Noble said there are really only two choices for protecting open societies from attacks like the one on Westgate mall where so-called “soft targets” are hit: either create secure perimeters around the locations or allow civilians to carry their own guns to protect themselves.

“Societies have to think about how they’re going to approach the problem,” Noble said. “One is to say we want an armed citizenry; you can see the reason for that. Another is to say the enclaves are so secure that in order to get into the soft target you’re going to have to pass through extraordinary security.”

Any evaluation of Mall of America security, in the face of the clear and present danger of a jihadi attack, should take the large and prominent Gun Free Zone signs into account.


©2015 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.Link to Gun Watch

[Azeem]

I just looked on my CCW app and Minnesota appears to have similar laws to Indiana. The ‘No Guns’ signs have no legal standing (624.714)(a). They can only kick you out for legally carrying.

Just ignore the sign and carry (concealed) on.

[rabidralph]

Not to worry, MOA is for minutes-of-angle, as well :-)

[lulu16]

This is a televsion show made by a former Seal. It has many great episodes, including, how to survive an earthquake, how to survive an atomic blast, etc.

This is the link to How to Survive a Mall Shooting. Watch it with your loved ones. It just may save your life. In it he explains how to avoid sniper fire, how to organize people into a fighting force, how to improvise first aid on a bullet wound, and all done in a narrative form, so you remember it.

http://www.spike.com/episodes/3w9eyj/surviving-disaster-mall-shooting-season-1-ep-107

My hint: Go into stores with exterior doors to the parking lot, not the entrances, those are likely the kill-zones. And combat park, i.e, with the front of your car facing out; do not park where you have to back out—you want the quickest egress.

I would appreciate more survival tips for shopping situations this forum.

[rovenstinez]

I’ve read repeatedly, statements by the President that this is a religion of peace, so I don’t think there is anything to really worry about here.... let’s move on to more important news.

[NYleatherneck]

Do “No Gun Signs” Have the Force of Law?

“NO”

624.714 Subd. 17 Code for Gun Signs in Business
(Handgunlaw.us Recommends You read 624.714 Subd. 17)

State of Minnesota in Court of Appeals A07-131 (Click Link for Full Ruling. Pg. 9 & 14)

Edina Community Lutheran Church, Respondent, Unity Church of St. Paul, Respondent, vs. State of Minnesota, Appellant.

Even after making a reasonable request that guns not be brought onto the premises, and even if that request complies precisely with the terms of the statute, the owner or operator of a private establishment must also order a person who refuses to comply to leave the premises, before that person can be prosecuted for petty misdemeanor trespass. Minn. Stat. § 624.714, subd. 17(a). In addition, the gun possessed by the trespasser is not subject to forfeiture. Id.; cf. Minn. Stat. § 609.531, subds. 1(b), 4 (2006) (weapons subject to forfeiture)

Screw that sign... Concealed means concealed.

[I want the USA back]

Screaming bearded savages who rape, maim, burn and murder are going to see the no gun sign and go home because they are nice tolerant people and would never hurt anyone.
< /s>

[KoRn]

We will fight them at the Food Courts, we will fight them in the fountains, we will fight them on the escalators, we will fight them in Spencer’s, and the parking lots. We will never surrender!

[Vaquero]

Never been there and now I wouldn’t go there.

“An armed society is a polite society”’ Robert Heinlein.

[Billthedrill]

Brave words. But if they take the Cinnabon, it’s over.

[ButThreeLeftsDo]

Under Minnesota law, MOA cannot post the building. They are a landlord with tenants. The individual tenants may post their own stores, but the landlord may not.

[Vaquero]

if the Mall of America last for a thousand years, men will still say, This was their failure hour.

[Travis McGee]

It's the same level of thinking as this, except adults don't have an excuse.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

-— While gun free zone signs have failed in a number of locations, it may be that they were not large enough or prominent enough -—

Humor may work where reason doesn’t.

[mjp]

the "gun free zone" signs may provide some protection.

[KoRn]

lol!

[KoRn]

I couldn’t care less if they shut down every mall in the country. I HATE going to those places. I don’t think I’ve personally bought anything from one in YEARS.

[Terry L Smith]

The Twin Towers in NYC were gun free zones, too, and what happened there, I ask?

[CodeToad]

Not to mention, MOA doesn’t say in its sign WHAT law they claim they are using. That sign was written by an idiot liberal that doesn’t know the law. I suspect if a shooting happens there will be lawsuits based on that sign.

[Billthedrill]

Yeah. I used to make a yearly pilgrimage for Christmas shopping, but these days it’s pretty much all online. I haven’t been to a shopping mall unarmed even once in nearly two decades. The threat is just too obvious.

[Azeem]

At the local Simon malls in Indianapolis, the owner has posted the ‘No gun’ signs, but it hasn’t stopped the multiple Amish riots on the properties.