After the recent shooting on campus in Florida, Florida Carry quickly made the case that the campus was a "gun free" or "defenseless victim" zone, and that removing the prohibition on legal guns would make campus safer. From new4jax.com:
Posted on 11/22/2014 5:06:22 AM PST by marktwain
After the recent shooting on campus in Florida, Florida Carry quickly made the case that the campus was a "gun free" or "defenseless victim" zone, and that removing the prohibition on legal guns would make campus safer. From new4jax.com:
Friday said several lawsuits are pending against Florida universities that refuse to allow students the right to carry weapons in class. In states like Idaho, Colorado, Utah, Oregon and Kansas, Friday said, school shooting statistics are remarkably lower than the rest of the nation.The case for campus carry is seldom allowed full presentation in the old media, but a fair presentation of the argument was given in the news4jax.com article. The article also includes a poll offering several options. Online polls are not scientific, but they do measure "intensity" fairly well. They measure the ratio of people for and against, who are willing to take the time to fill out an online poll.
"Every state that allows law-abiding students to carry guns on campus, every one of those schools has not had a mass shooting since they enacted that rule," Friday said.
I think it shows what is possible when people are allowed to hear a reasoned argument from second amendment supporters.
The recent FSU case was an anomaly. The delusional/insane shooter had only a .380 pistol, and he hung around the front of the library as if he was literally waiting for the cops to come and shoot him.
That’s why the got there in about 2 to 5 minutes and shot him. (I have heard various reports on the time lapse.)
If he had had a pair of 9mm pistols and had gone deep into the library and up to a top floor and cornered 100 or more students, it would have been a bloodbath, and the cops arriving at the front door in just minutes would not have prevented it.
Only an armed student or staff on that floor with the shooter could have stopped it then.
But: I think it shows what is possible when people are allowed to hear a reasoned argument from second amendment supporters.
Here is the comment I posted on the Channel 4 thread:
The recent FSU case was an anomaly. The delusional/insane shooter only had a .380 pistol which held 7 or so cartridges, and he hung around the front of the library as if he was literally waiting for the cops to come and shoot him in a “suicide by cop.”
That’s why the cops got there in about 2 to 5 minutes and shot him. (I have heard various reports on the time lapse.) He was literally waiting for them.
If he had had a 9mm pistol or bigger, with several 15-round magazines, and had gone deep into the library and up to a top floor and cornered 100 or more students, it would have been a bloodbath, and the cops arriving at the front door in just minutes would not have prevented it. It would have been like Virginia Tech, a bloodbath. Cops arriving outside would not have stopped it, just as they could not stop Virginia Tech.
Only an armed student or staff on that floor with the shooter could have stopped it then.
The fact is that the average number of deaths in shooting rampages stopped by police is 11, and the number of deaths when it is stopped by a civilian is 3. Why? Because the civilian with the gun was right there, and the cops were a long way away. That’s why shooters seek “disarmed victim zones” like school cafeterias and libraries.
Thank God FSU was basically a “suicide by cop” and not another Virginia Tech.
Direct link to poll:
http://www.news4jax.com/news/attorneys-what-if-college-students-had-guns/29865222
FREEP THIS POLL ***PING!***
FRmail me if you want to be added or removed from the Fearless Poll-Freeping Freepers Ping list. (multiple votes using multiple internetz devices are allowed!)
And be sure to ping me to any polls that need Freepin’, if I miss them.
(looks like a medium volume list) (gordongekko909, founder of the pinglist, stays on the list until his ghost signs up for the list)
I think more people carrying guns on campus would minimize shootings. - 48% (1400 votes)
Yes, but only people with concealed carry permits should have them at college. - 43% (1245 votes)
Guns should be allowed on campus, but only locked in vehicles. (Current law). - 1% (41 votes)
Only law enforcement personnel should be allowed to carry guns on campus. - 8% (219 votes)
Total Votes: 2,905
Another report states that friends of the shooter had been trying to get him help for a couple of months.
Yeah, very sad he didn’t have a decent intervention. Once a person falls off into paranoid delusions, he can’t help himself but MUST be steered to an intervention and treated in a psych ward.
If other shootings are any guide, the police would have stayed outside the building until they thought they had better control of the situation. That is how so many people died at Virginia Tech, the police didn’t want to take a chance that they might get shot. Also Columbine.
I doubt that having carry rights would have made a difference, just because the chance of someone with a gun happening to be there and happening to do the right thing when the shooting just starts is low.
But on the other hand, every one of these shootings PROVE that “gun-free” does nothing to stop bad people from shooting you with a gun. There is zero evidence that gun bans ever cut down the number of shootings, and good evidence that allowing guns lowers the chance of shootings.
I’ve seen this in my family. It’s almost impossible to have some institutionalized against their will. Even of you manage to do it they’re only held for 72 hours to “stabilize” them and they’re sent on their way.
Yes, but family and friends must try. If not, they should warn LE where appropriate.
One more consequence of a financial/social collapse will be the sudden cold-turkey medication cutoff of millions of folks who are out walking around normally today only because of their meds. Cut them off, and we will in a very short period of time be encountering a lot of very stressed out paranoid schizoids. Very, very dangerous.
The fact is that the average number of deaths in shooting rampages stopped by police is 11, and the number of deaths when it is stopped by a civilian is 3. Why? Because the civilian with the gun was right there, and the cops were a long way away. That’s why shooters seek “disarmed victim zones” like school cafeterias and libraries.
Oddly enough, law enforcement is learning from all of these shooter situations. So far, most have offed themselves as soon as they were met with armed force.
The original tactics were to activate swat study the blueprints of the building, form a committee to discuss what to do and then go in and collect bodies.
The thinking is moving more to storm the doors as soon as the first officer arrives and engage the shooter.
When seconds count, the police will be there in a matter of minutes.
Patriot Nurse coverd that subject in one of her videos. It got me thinking about the family maintenance medications. (Blood pressure and stuff like that) but this method will work for just about anyone.
Every time you refill a prescription take 2 days worth out and store it in the container from the previous one. In a few months you’ll have a weeks worth put back. And the insurance company (if you have one) won’t kick if you refill two days early.
Using this method Mrs L and I have 30 days or more of our daily meds in storage. May not be appropriate for everyone but this works for us.
L
I think more people carrying guns on campus would minimize shootings. - 48% (1499 votes)
Yes, but only people with concealed carry permits should have them at college. - 43% (1336 votes)
Guns should be allowed on campus, but only locked in vehicles. (Current law). - 1% (42 votes)
Only law enforcement personnel should be allowed to carry guns on campus. - 7% (231 votes)
Total Votes: 3,108
“I doubt that having carry rights would have made a difference, just because the chance of someone with a gun happening to be there and happening to do the right thing when the shooting just starts is low.”
That’s only because not enough people carry, if you are a responsible and able bodied/able mind citizen then you should be carrying.
Would allowing guns on college campuses make students safer?
I think more people carrying guns on campus would minimize shootings. - 49%........(1587 votes)
Yes, but only people with concealed carry permits should have them at college. - 43%.......(1394 votes)
Guns should be allowed on campus, but only locked in vehicles. (Current law). - 1%.......(47 votes)
Only law enforcement personnel should be allowed to carry guns on campus. - 7%.......(242 votes)
Total Votes: 3,270
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.