Posted on 09/23/2014 6:13:35 AM PDT by WXRGina
Don't try to over-think it. Try instead just to judge the merits of an argument based on its rationality, factuality, and logic.
The whole point of those scriptures is that we’re not to worry; not that we’re not [to] work [...]
...they toil not, neither do they spin ... if God so clothe the grass of the field ... shall he [i.e., God] not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
Seems clear to me that Christ is saying that God will clothe us. Consider his listeners (as I'm sure Christ did): How would they have understood that statement? As some allegorical or eschatological promise about the Hereafter? No, these listeners were simple people - many of which had empty bellies. Undoubtedly, they would have interpreted his words to mean that we should not toil, nor spin, because God will [somehow] provide us with those items. There's really very little to quibble about here. Christ is using concrete language. He is not referring to "celestial raiment" (which he could have easily mentioned explicitly, had that been his intent) but rather to actual clothing.
...and all these things shall be added unto you...
Again: Not florid imagery, but concrete things will be placed at our disposal.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow...
In other words: DON'T PREPARE!
Regards,
Wrestling with pigs? Do not judge your brother?
It seems there are a few people completely missing the point of the column, which only has to do with where our faith lies. Nowhere am I judging anyone, nor did it enter my mind to do so. I—again—have honestly wrestled with this issue, because of what is written in the Bible (Jesus in Matthew 6, and also sending his men out with nothing but the shirt on their backs, just two examples).
Anon, you are completely mistaken in your claim that I am in any way envious of “doomsday” preppers (or any of the other ways you put it—judgmental or jealous). You don’t even know whether or not I’m a prepper, because I didn’t say! I can only say you’re wrong about that, because, as I wrote in the column, there is nothing wrong with prepping! It can be a very useful thing! I guess you missed that part.
I’m sorry that you guys think my genuine attempt work through the issue is my being a judgmental pig, because that’s not the case.
Are you employed? Get a paycheck? Why.
Do you have insurance? Prepping is no different. Nor is it ‘hoarding’. Read deeper into scriptures where it is encouraged to prepare for future need. Don’t be myoptic to exclude the council of the whole scripture.
If you read back through my comments and column, that’s NOT what I’m saying at all! The few people who are misunderstanding my column are missing the point BIG TIME! I’ve tried to explain it, and it has nothing to do with anything but faith, and the measure of it the Lord has given each of us. Each of us has a different amount.
It’s relative.
My great greandmother, wife of a Southern Baptist deacon, would hardly have considered herself a ‘prepper’ or not relying on God’s providence for her support. In fact, she would have been quite offended had you suggested such.
I have the leather bound ledger in which she kept her household accounts. All moneys spent and what they were spent on.
Her ‘pantry’ at any given time (not counting what they always had growing in the field or kitchen garden or henhouse, pigsty, cow pen, pretty much all year long) could have *easily* kept her family decently fed for at least a year.
She wasn’t any different from another of my great great grandmothers on the other side of my family. One of my great aunts has HER ‘kitchen ledger’ from the 1890’s. She had 12 kids at home at any given time and could have easily fed that entire crowd for 9m-1yr with no resupply.
If you had asked them to rely on less than a month’s food supply and be ‘responsible wives and mothers’ with such they’d have had you banned from the sewing bee. And if you’d suggested their pantries represented ‘unbelief in God’s providence’ they’d have given you a piece of their mind on the topic.
Did God’s providence feed the people in New England during the year without a summer?
Yes, it’s all relative to the measure of faith each of us has as well as what the Lord has laid on each of our hearts.
“Yes, it’s all relative to the measure of faith each of us has as well as what the Lord has laid on each of our hearts.”
So you’re saying pretty much all Christian women before the age of supermarket and JIT food delivery had no faith in the Lord?
Is our faith in JIT delivery systems supposed to supercede having read history books?
There have been literally millions of Christians who have starved during times of famine. Maybe they just didn’t have enough faith...
I have kin who refuse to even have gardens or fruit and berry bushes in their yards. When I point out that if things got hard (because I took history in college and actually read those books) they could at least eat berries I’m quickly chastised with ‘I won’t have to worry about that!, I’ll be raptured!. Too bad you don’t have the faith that you’ll be raptured too, maybe you should pray on that!’. As a retort.
I don’t have whole storage closets full of food. But I DO grow an extensive garden enough to feed my family and several neighbors. I also save seed to share if things got bad. Venezuela, Crimea, Argentina, West Africa and any other hotspot you care to think of is currently experiencing food insufficiency. To think ‘it can’t happen here’ is to stick one’s head in the sand. None of those countries have been raptured as far as I can tell, but there are plenty of hungry and starving Christians there.
NO! I’m not saying ANY Christian has “no faith in the Lord.” Neither am I advocating people refusing to even have a berry bush in their yard.
I’m not sure why you’re missing the point of the column, but I can only tell you that the purpose of the piece is my attempt to examine the issue in light of Scripture.
I KNOW it CAN happen here! That’s why I’m looking at the issue. I’m sorry you misunderstand my points and purpose. Others did not and knew exactly what I was saying.
It has nothing to do with ‘measures of faith’. It has everything to do with heading Gods guidance for provision lost in today’s fast food world.
So, your response to my calm, logical observations is to start asking personal questions? I thought that we were discussing Holy Scripture here...
Please point out any errors in logic, falsely cited quotations, etc.
Regards,
This is how you create unbelievers by the way.
You give God a test, ie, feeding you when times are sparse. Plenty of faithful Christians have starved during such times. When God fails the ‘test’, by witholding his ‘providence’, it is easy to conclude that you’re either not good enough, or there simply is no God. That’s even easier when God is letting your children starve before your eyes.
Holodomer.
I read your article like this:
‘I can’t afford to really prep with 10 years of freeze dried fruit and MRE’s and I don’t want to have to store all that anyways. So I’m going to justify not bothering with that at all with scripture’.
What would have happened on the Gulf coast after Katrina had the us military not intervened with MRE’s? What would those 15 or 20 miles inland looked like had that happened in the midst of political and/or social unrest. I’m not talking about people who would have lost any stored food to flooding. I’m talking people who lived north of the surge.
We have about 4-6w in the pantry + a 12m garden. If some sort of situation gets so out of hand that we are no longer able to garden in rural MS, we have other problems to consider...
But I have plenty of kin who have less than 10 days in the pantry. These are the ‘I’ll be raptured, I won’t have to worry about that!’ kin. These kin, in fact, were recipients of MRE’s after Katrina. But fail to see the irony there...Maybe the US military assisted the rapture...with the help of their fellow taxpaying citizens no less.
And these are the kin who now live in my grandmother’s house. She was also a Southern Baptist deacon’s wife. And had pecan trees, hickory nut trees, blueberry bushes, blackberry brambles, a 25-30ft pear tree that made the best tasting pears you ever ate, and a big garden nearly 12m out of the year.
Said kin meticulously either cut or pulled up every single food bearing plant my grandmother had lovingly tended and harvested from for decades. When I asked them why they’d done that, (I would give anything for a rooted cutting off of that pear tree) they replied that God had spoken to them about it and they’d decided to trust ‘providence’. And besides, we’ll be raptured! Mind you, this is my grandmother’s great neice’s family. Mind you, I think inheriting a house with 6 acres, big garden plot lovingly nourished with sort of tending by my grandparents and a yardful of edibles counts as pretty good ‘providence’ in my book.
And just 2 years later they were getting MRE’s after Katrina because (surprise surprise!) they were hungry.
Last I heard, they filled in the water well and dismantled the pump and rely only on municipal water now. Because if things get so bad the municipal water system becomes useless they’ll have already been raptured.
If you aren’t some degree of self sufficient, when things get bad, your neighbors pantry will begin to look like ‘God’s providence’ when they can no longer bear the faces of your starving children and send over food. Your neighbor’s view of ‘God’s providence’ will likely be a little different...
And with your outspoken articles against homosexuality, I wouldn’t count on any MRE’s if there’s another ‘cane down there. I’d be willing to bet that your address would get lost in the system.
I’m not “justifying” anything. I’m looking at the issue. You can mis-read into it whatever you like, because I can’t stop you. It is YOU who are being judgmental, not me.
I’m just trying to understand why an intelligent Christian would use scripture to justify inevitable dependence on their neighbors in bad times.
Help me out here...
I can’t help you out, because you’re falsely accusing me of something I’m not doing. I can’t prove a negative. If you believe I’m encouraging laziness and dependence, all I can say is you’re DEAD WRONG, and you are not comprehending the meaning of what I wrote. I can present what I wrote, but I can’t understand it FOR YOU.
I can see not having 10 years of freeze dried food stuffed under every bed and night stand in the house. I really can.
If it should get ‘that bad’ the likelihood you have the ammo to protect that from everyone else is low.
But let’s face reality here:
If you have 4 weeks of food in the house and circumstances prevent your getting food for another 2 months after that then you what...?
I’d appreciate an honest realistic answer to that.
That’s part of the point of my column. How can we ever have enough? How can we be fully prepared? We can’t. We can only prepare as much as we’re able, and depending on our living situations, it’s different for each of us.
We can play “what if” all day long. What if you have ten years’ worth of supplies, but you’re forced to flee your home? Your bug-out bag is all you have then.
But this argument can be used to have zero preparations at all. And will be. And is, in fact.
It’s defeatist. I can’t do 100% so let me justify not doing anything at all.
Why 4 weeks then, why not 2? or just 10 days?
Nobody is ever fully prepared. Even those with 10 years of freeze dried food.
In the case of my kin it was an excuse to spend money at Disney rather than stocking an extra 4 or 5 weeks of food in their pantry. And IMHO he cut down all the food plants because he was tired of mowing around them. In a sense (or maybe in reality) his ‘preps’ came out of everyone elses pocket when he received those MRE’s and bottle water cases. And he got tired of maintaining the well and water pump, on muni water it’s all someone elses problem. Ditto chimney maintenance. So they bricked up all the fireplaces.
You needn’t spend any extra at all. Next time your grocery store has something 50% off, get 2 and put one back. Coupon for that. And buy in bulk. Any perceived ‘preps’ we have are simply because I have to buy in bulk. Its easily 1/3 the cost to buy a giant 50lb bag of rice flour than it is to buy piddling 24oz bags at the grocery store.
Store what you use and use what you store. Rotate. The people with 10 years of freeze dried food aren’t going to be really happy about it when that’s all they have to eat if they’ve not been using and eating that beforehand.
And even in an apartment, especially on the coast, if you have any sun exposure on a balcony at all you can grow fresh food there 12m out of the year. I grew 3 or 4 bushels of tomatoes on a southeast facing balcony in NYC one summer. My neighbors were floored such a thing was even possible. If you have a yard, you’re good to go. Read up on a subject called ‘edible landscaping’.
The very best preps are self sufficient skillsets and the tools you need to carry those out. You needn’t have 10 years of stored food if you have a plan to obtain food after yours runs out that does NOT include a gun and your neighbor’s pantry under duress.
This mentality is why I save seeds for half the county (ok, that’s an exaggeration), just in case. I have the freezer space (tiny in comparison to the food I’d have to store for even a week for just the neighbors on my road) and recycle those though the compost pile every year or two when I get fresh ones.
If you have any yard at all on the coast your preps should be more in the line of growing fresh food in as great a quantity as you can to feed yourself and learning how to save the seeds for what you eat. You live in a zone with literally a 12m growing season. There’s no reason, other than perhaps physical incapacity, you can’t grow nearly everything you eat. And I’m including backyard chickens here as well. I’m not talking toiling over endless red clay hilled up rows of my grandmother’s canning garden either. 2 raised beds would be all you needed for one person other than a few staples easily obtained in bulk (25lbs or so, efficiently stored (flour, sugar, salt, beans) and cheaply gotten) and could provide for you for months and months.
The best way to prep is to be self sufficient for your physical needs in as much as you possibly can. ‘Our’ ancestors just 100 years ago would have considered the whole ‘prep or be faithful’ dichotomy to be insanity of the finest order.
My kin actually have about 10 days now. When they first started the whole ‘non prepping’ thing they had less than 1 day’s worth of food in the house. They went through the drive thru or food delivery or the ‘fresh made’ pickup stuff you get at the grocery store. Every. Single. Day. When he lost his job some years ago and went for a while w/o one she had to start cooking simply because they couldn’t afford the drive thru anymore.
II Peter 1:5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Yes, I understand how to prep, and your suggestions are good ones.
One of the main reasons I wrote the column is what Jesus said in Matthew 6. His words are what weigh on my mind and inspired me to explore this subject. People are completely missing this point and are instead falsely accusing me of judging others or “making excuses” for people who don’t prepare, none of which is true.
This was a foundational question I asked myself in writing the column: In relation to prepping, what does Jesus, the God of all creation, means by this:
Matthew 6
24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
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