Posted on 04/07/2013 2:47:34 PM PDT by Cold Case Posse Supporter
The lawyer specifically said that Obama wasn’t “born ....anywhere outside of the state of Hawaii.” That can only mean he was they are stating he was born in Hawaii.
You can’t apply normal logic to legal filings. I speak from experience. DOJ and DHS lawyers are issuing a simple technical denial of plaintiff’s claim in an ANSWER to a lawsuit. Those lawyers do not have to and did not in fact state (aver) that Barry “was born in Hawaii.” That would be a counter-claim that they would then have the burden of proving. The DOJ and DHS lawyers stopped short of that. They only denied the claim that Barry was NOT born in Hawaii. This is attorney speak for “If you think you can prove your claim that Barry wasn’t born in Hawaii before the judge we will see you in court where we will be able cross-examine your claimed evidence and present our evidence to the contrary.”
It is left to a discovery hearing or to the trial on the merits, if the judge grants one, for any evidence to be presented but there has never been a discovery hearing or trial on the merits regarding Barry’s 1961 BC.
A simple technical denial of plaintiff’s claim in an ANSWER merely precludes a default judgment in favor of the plaintiff for FAILING to answer.
“It seems to me that it’s a never ending story of Zullo promising to release *explosive* new evidence soon but where “soon” is like tomorrow; it’s always one day away.”
Zullo and Gallups have stated that numerous VIPs have made promises to come out against Barry either to indict him or denounce him, but then they backed out. Barry has vast resources at his disposal to ferret out any plots against his eligibility and to send thugs out to discourage any brave souls who might exercise their prosecutorial discretion to indict Barry.
The fact that Breitbart died suddenly (for whatever reason) the night before Arpaio release devastating evidence of forgery and right after talking to Arpaio has not been lost on anyone contemplating taking on Barry. DOJ was also unleashed on Arpaio.
Details of any criminal investigation, including forgery, MUST be kept secret until an indictment is obtained and is unsealed. This is necessary to protect the rights of the accused as well as the case of the prosecution.
Prosecutors have total discretion whether or not to prosecute and when contemplating going after a POTUS, then EXTREME discretion is called for because the Arian Brotherhood of Texas are pikers compared to an enraged, armed and dangerous POTUS backed by the MSM and billionaires.
Do you still want to complain about delays?
I can write a letter to the Texas Dept of Public Health and have it notarized by my bank for free. The letter would state than any person can have access to my birth records on file in Austin, Texas. My total cost would be the price of a first class stamp, and gas to the bank to get it notarized. I could also do the same with the State Department and authorize access to my passport and travel records by anyone. Cost again would be the price of a first class stamp.
For less than one dollar I can prove with absolute certainty my citizenship, birthplace and travel history.
Tau Food, I ask you this, “Why has Obama spent millions in not doing exactly what I can do for less than a dollar?”
Well, first, I want you to consider the following political fact: during his two presidential campaigns, Obama was the primary political beneficiary of the birther "investigations."
Obama didn't want the birther activists to go away for the same reason that, in 1972, Nixon didn't want the long-haired, pot-smoking, hippie war protestors to go away.
At the time, I really had no idea whether the birthers were on to something serious or not, but as time went by it became increasingly clear that Obama was using the issue to paint his opponents as nuts and kooks. Like Nixon wanted to create associations between hippie war protestors and Democrat candidates, Obama wanted to create associations between birthers and Republican candidates. Most Republican politicians avoided the bait.
If what you suggest is true, why did Obama scramble so fast to produce that multi-layered LFBC monstrosity the instant Trump started championing the ‘birther’ issue? If ‘birtherism’ was really good for Obama, shouldn’t he have ignored Trump & allowed him to go hog wild? Yet the moment Trump began shining a spotlight on the issue, voila, out of the woodwork comes a LF BC, paraded out in front of the cameras for all the world to see. Despite the obvious cut & paste/computer-generated nature of the doc, it laid the issue to rest for many. If Obama profited from the issue, why did he want it to go away?
Go away? How could it go away?
Trump was using the issue to gain traction in Republican polls. Others were using it as a basis for fundraising (i.e., making money). People were financially and politically benefiting from the issue. Why would any of them allow it to just go away? Everyone knew that there wasn't then and there isn't now any way to prove with absolute certainty where Obama was born or where anyone else his age was born for that matter.
Obama had to know that releasing more documents would not make the issue go away for people who had become dependent on the issue's existence. And, he was right. It didn't make the issue go away. What the release did do is make birthers appear (to most people) to be just that much more nutty and kooky.
If birthers were provided a courtroom to try this case tomorrow, who would appear as a witness to competently testify that Obama was born in Kenya or anywhere in the world outside the United States? There isn't anyone willing and able to do that. The problem with the case is that there is no case. There is fundraising, there are book sales and there are faux lawyers filing faux lawsuits, but there is no underlying case.
Hell, even the birthers who now believe that Obama may have been born in Hawaii haven't come home. Lots of them just shifted their focus away from his place of birth to the citizenship of the man they believe (but can't prove) was his father. In order to do that, they have gone so far as to imply that the ordinary citizens of our constitutional era were more or less uniformly conscious of and in agreement with the theories of citizenship written in another language by some Swiss philosopher named Vattel. All of it is of course baloney, but to the people who had wandered that far into the intellectual jungle that they created, nothing could ever make the birther issue "go away." Obama had to know that much. And, as you can see, he was right.
There’s another way of looking at it. Prior to Trump getting involved, pollsters did from time to time ask respondents if they believed Obama was born in HI. Every time they asked, slightly fewer people believed Obama’s narrative. Now this cannot be good for any president. I.e.: as more & more people believe he is lying even about something as basic as his place of birth, the man becomes tainted goods. He was losing credibility, & if there’s one thing a POTUS needs, it’s credibility.
When Trump jumped in the shift accelerated. All at once people seriously began to doubt Obama’s bona fides. So Obama & crew staged a big dog & pony show & sought to lay the questions to rest once & for all.
To a fair degree they succeeded. Trump changed his tune immediately, & said that at least he’d forced Obama to do what no one else had or could: produce a LF BC.
Up until the release of the computer-generated fraudulent doc, the issue was actually hurting Obama. This is a matter of record. I’m not going to go back & dig up all the polls, but anyone interested can do so. Obama was seriously starting to take a hit, & the only thing that saved him was the MSM closing ranks behind the fraudulent doc.
“Obama was seriously starting to take a hit, & the only thing that saved him was the MSM closing ranks behind the fraudulent doc.”
That and whacking Bin Laden a few days later which he had been evading doing for months because of the risk, according to inside reports.
Whacking Bin Laden was the ultimate distraction and made him an instant “untouchable” historic patriot to the low-information voters.
Good point. Team Obama was really starting to panic, wasn’t it? No way did Valerie Jarrett want Bin Laden dead. She must at the v least have gotten out of the way, however, in order to change the subject.
If questions about Obama’s basic integrity had really helped him, he would not have yielded to Trump’s gambit. Rather, the WH would have gone into mockery overdrive, saying things like, ‘We’ve already released the COLB which is more than sufficient legal proof of HI birth. We hadn’t realized that in addition to being nuts, Trump is also a racist’, etc.
When you observe instead the lengths to which the WH went to produce the fraudulent LF BC—coupled w the sudden action on Bin Laden—you see just how much the issue was hurting them. Namely: A Lot.
No, most members of the voting public never thought that the state of Hawaii was producing phony records, or that the birth notices in the Hawaiian papers were phony. To believe all that requires a powerful motive to believe all that.
Had there ever been a serious, legitimate issue, serious, legitimate political competitors would have used it against Obama. Trump needed an issue like that to gain attention in the Republican primaries where the number of hard-core birthers might help create a significant base for a primary campaign. But, in the two general elections, his two general election GOP opponents wouldn't touch the issue. And, for good reason.
There are some who remain dependent upon this birther cause - some for political reasons, some for financial reasons and some for emotional/psychological reasons. For most of these people (for obvious reasons), it will just fade away in about 2016. But, as long as the fundraising and book sales continue, birthermania will not just "go away" until Obama goes away and then it just won't matter anymore.
As I've said, I was originally sort of an agnostic on all this stuff. However, the more I learned about it, the more evident it became that there is no case here. There are no provable facts about any foreign birth. Completely ignoring the Hawaiian records that support Obama, under our laws of evidence, Obama himself is permitted to testify that he was born in Hawaii. No one can competently testify that he wasn't. No one. No case, Period. Serious, legitimate politicians who wanted to face a general election knew there was no case. The issue was poison offered to them by Obama. They didn't drink it.
If birtherism had been helping Obama they would not have responded to Trump’s challenge/broadside. They’d have stuck w the COLB & mocked Trump instead.
The v lengths they went to in order, at least in the minds of the MSM, to undercut Trump’s claims are sufficient proof, in & of themselves, to demonstrate the degree to which the issue was harming Obama.
I.e.: after first announcing to the world the COLB was all there was & all there ever would be, they magically produced an entirely different doc. They didn’t do it because Trump’s volleys were helping Obama; they did it because Trump’s attacks were taking a toll. They needed to stop the bleeding, & w the help on their toadies in the MSM, they succeeded.
What do you do?
That was not your original point, at least not the one I was responding to. You said originally that Obama loved birthers & they were an asset to him, much like hippie war protestors were an asset to Nixon. I pointed out that questions re: Obama’s ever changing nativity tales hurt him, and hurt him in proportion to how much attention they received. [I.e.: they hurt him most when Trump took up the cause & publicized it as never before.] This is the sole point I was responding to. If you wish to change the subject, you will have to do it w’out me. [At least for tonight; I’m not of time.]
It helps to have opponents like that, particularly if you can associate them with the opposing candidate.
Show Obama’s 1991 bio that says he was born in Kenay, play the video of Michelle calling Kenya his home country and the stories where his step-grandmother said he was a “son of the soil” in Kenya.
Hearsay - inadmissible unless you can find an appropriate exception.
play the video of Michelle calling Kenya his home country
Hearsay - inadmissible unless you can find an appropriate exception. If you claim she can testify to witnessing his birth in Kenya, call her as a witness so that the court can hear her testimony.
and the stories where his step-grandmother said he was a “son of the soil” in Kenya.
Yep, you're right. That's also hearsay. Find an appropriate exception.
The best way to prove something happened is to find a witness who can testify that they saw it happen.
Tau Food is a disruptor troll. Please read his posts
“I.e.: after first announcing to the world the COLB was all there was & all there ever would be, they magically produced an entirely different doc. They didn’t do it because Trump’s volleys were helping Obama; they did it because Trump’s attacks were taking a toll. They needed to stop the bleeding, & w the help on their toadies in the MSM, they succeeded.”
Correct. This particular thread is NOT about any claims that there is verifiable evidence that Barry was not born in HI, but rather it is about the mounting forensic evidence that Barry’s LFBC pdf image is a digital forgery.
Anti-birthers, Obots, Fogblowers, SPs and trolls have no competent forensic rebuttal to the Posse evidence that the pdf BC is forged that has already been made public.
None of what I posted is considered hearsay. Those are admissable forms of evidence. The “hearsay” is when you rely on so-called contemporaneous newspaper listings that don’t contain a place of birth, and records that have no legal value when they are neither certified and never entered into court.
Of course it is, but if you don't know the definition of hearsay, i suppose it's a bit unfair for me to use the term in discussing this kind of thing with you. So, I won't. Of course, that makes it kind of impossible for me to discuss the evidentiary aspects of this matter with you at all. So, I won't.
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