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3D printing of ammunition magazines threatens U.S. gun regulation plans
http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2013/01/3d-printing-threatens-us-gun-regulation.html ^ | 8 January, 2013 | John Lott

Posted on 01/09/2013 5:37:11 PM PST by marktwain

Unlike printing guns, which doesn't work, printing ammunition magazines doesn't face any practical problems. Of course, people could always make the magazines using simple tools in any machine shop (after all they are just metal boxes with a spring), but my guess is that these 3D printers will capture attention in a way that the old machine shops didn't. This article is from Metro News:

After the tragedies of Sandy Hook and Aurora, the U.S. government is preparing to introduce stricter guidelines on gun ownership. But supporters of the second amendment could get around them by printing their own firearms at home. The technology is still developing but 2012 saw the first shots fired from guns with printed parts. ‘Gun hacking’ is a growth community in online forums and has become serious business. “I have five people now making AK-47 magazines – they’re incredibly easy to reproduce”, Cody Wilson, CEO of the Defense Distributed company in Texas, told Metro. A firm believer in the right to bear arms, Wilson is deliberately producing parts for assault weapons likely to be banned by new controls. “(U.S. Vice-President) Joe Biden’s group are using the assumption that if you control the channel you control the product – but that is not the case any more”, says Wilson. His company have made open-source code for over 30 gun parts available online, and claims they have been receiving thousands of downloads a day. . . .

As Peter K, the person who sent me the link to this information, noted these printing machines are everywhere: "my brother in law owns a couple of these type of machines for his jewelry business. you can make just about anything with them."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: 3dprinting; ak47magazines; banglist; guncontrol; highcapmagazines; secondamendment
The word on 3D printed Magazines is getting out.
1 posted on 01/09/2013 5:37:23 PM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

I prefer metal magazines myself. With that said, DDD has been on fire.


2 posted on 01/09/2013 5:45:34 PM PST by BipolarBob (Happy Hunger Games! May the odds be ever in your favor.)
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To: marktwain

More insanity. Take something away from law-abiding citizens, and then only criminals and the government (is that a duplication?) will have them.

*** CRIMINALS DO NOT OBEY LAWS ***

Ever pay attention to the Obama administration and how they do things? (that are illegal?)


3 posted on 01/09/2013 5:49:23 PM PST by EagleUSA
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To: marktwain

If forty years ago, a Viet Cong in a backwater jungle blacksmith shop can turn out usable 30 round magazines for captured M-16s with just some sheet steel and tin snips what chance does a ban have?


4 posted on 01/09/2013 5:51:13 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (GUNS.. the rightful property of freemen, and formidable only to tyrannical governments.”)
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To: BipolarBob

It is possible to print magazines and then use the print out in lost wax casting, though that does take more equipment and time. With a larger investment in the 3d printer (slm printer), it is possible to print final ready to use aluminium or steel magazines.


5 posted on 01/09/2013 5:51:29 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: marktwain

The real killer of the Left’s plans is when you can print your own ammunition!


6 posted on 01/09/2013 5:53:11 PM PST by The Working Man
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To: marktwain

Someone needs to start working on homemade caps and primers.


7 posted on 01/09/2013 5:56:34 PM PST by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: marktwain
I wonder if Obama has ever heard of the law of unintended consequences? If I'm going to face prosecution and a lengthy jail sentence just for possessing a hi-cap magazine or not registering my “assault weapons”. Then I might as well take the next step and mod all my semi's to full automatic....
8 posted on 01/09/2013 6:01:07 PM PST by apillar
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To: BipolarBob
I prefer metal magazines myself.

Metal hi-cap mags are incredibly easy to make.

9 posted on 01/09/2013 6:01:57 PM PST by umgud (No Rats, No Rino's)
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To: marktwain

Replicators?


10 posted on 01/09/2013 6:04:42 PM PST by Sybeck1
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To: taxcontrol

It would be just as easy, and result in a more durable magazine, to make a die to stamp thin steel plate. Magazines are easily made with basic machine shop tools - simple forming and a couple of rivets and presto.... Sourcing the springs would be an easy endeavor.


11 posted on 01/09/2013 6:06:34 PM PST by RobertClark (It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we'r)
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To: marktwain
It's possible to make magazines for existing guns by 3D printing. However, the next step will be printing the guns. However, there will be redesign of the guns. First, the printed barrel must be wound with steel wire or fiberglass, to provide strength. Instead of using gunpowder, the gun will be an airgun, like those used by the Lewis & Clark expedition in the early 1800s. Their airguns were capable of putting a bullet through a small tree. Make the barrel smoothbore, and make the projectile a rifled slug. Probably it won't have the accuracy of a good sniper rifle, but it should be adequate for most purposes. The air pressure reservoir will have to be patterned after the high -pressure, fiberglass-wound air tanks used in missiles. The problem will be re-pressurizing in the field. It obviously can be done. Lewis & Clark managed it. Anyway, I think this is one way to go with a completely 3D printed gun.
12 posted on 01/09/2013 6:15:48 PM PST by JoeFromSidney ( New book: RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY. Buy from Amazon.)
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To: marktwain
A stamping press could form and cut a hundred pieces in one cycle. There is no way to prevent mass manufacturing of such simple gun parts (they are simple, but only after a talented engineer designs them.) Magazines are intended to be as simple as possible because for every rifle in the army you need tens of magazines available - as all detachable parts in heavy use, they are issued, worn out, lost and damaged in battle.

Also, if they are all illegal, why to stop at 10 rounds if you can make 30? I'm sure the criminal underground will love the new business; there are tens of thousands of metalworkers in the country who have the skill, the machines, the facilities, but have no orders. (Who'd order from them, the Chinese?) They will be listening to the speeches of criminal bosses. If not, the boss will simply buy the shop (not necessarily for a fair price either.) Once the gang has the business up and running, what is to stop them from making locks, stocks and perhaps barrels? All unregistered, full-auto if the customer wants, and for a good price too! You don't even need to design the weapon - there are already lots of excellent designs, ready to be copied! Forget the Prohibition, this is the new goldmine. As the government prohibits manufacturing of new classes of firearms, the citizens will feel more and more need to have some. The crime world will gladly take their coin. That's how it was 90 years ago, and that's how it can be again.

13 posted on 01/09/2013 6:25:39 PM PST by Greysard
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To: marktwain

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2976274/posts


14 posted on 01/09/2013 6:30:56 PM PST by Eye of Unk (AR2 2013 is the American Revolution part 2 of 2013)
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To: Bryanw92

You can’t print those, because they actually contain a little tiny bit of explosive, to set off the shockwave that ignites the powder.

You would have to have access to that type of explosive, or be able to make it and handle it safely, if you wanted to make your own primers, and good luck with that being legal for average joe citizens. Just stock up on what you can buy now, because they are probably cheaper than whatever you could build yourself anyway.


15 posted on 01/09/2013 6:42:37 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: marktwain

Will that thing make pmags?


16 posted on 01/09/2013 6:44:58 PM PST by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: JoeFromSidney
Make the barrel smoothbore, and make the projectile a rifled slug.

A fin-stabilized projectile with a discarding sabot would be interesting also.

17 posted on 01/09/2013 6:53:04 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: SVTCobra03
Will that thing make pmags?

Not quite yet, but soon...

18 posted on 01/09/2013 6:54:40 PM PST by marktwain
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To: Greysard
why to stop at 10 rounds if you can make 30?

Indeed. Furthermore... if you have the tools and skills, why stop at a firearm when you can make a drone? How'd you like to be a BATF puke making a "house call" out of your armored personnel carrier, and look up and see a couple of THESE bad boys coming at you?

19 posted on 01/09/2013 6:55:24 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: Bryanw92

>> “Someone needs to start working on homemade caps and primers.” <<

.
I don’t reccomend it unless you have a degree in chemical engineering.

A friend back in my highschool days blinded himself trying to make mercuric fulminate. We started out making rockets, but that wasn’t enough for him; he wanted a bigger bang, and he finally got it.


20 posted on 01/09/2013 8:16:29 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: ArrogantBustard

It’s been tried. Meh. Not as good as you’d hope in small bore weapons.

Rifled slugs out of a shotgun... there’s real success under 100 yards to be had here, and you need only have a mold into which you cast lead. Lead is easy to obtain. Making a smooth-bore barrel for a shotgun is also easy.


21 posted on 01/09/2013 8:21:46 PM PST by NVDave
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Absolutely freakin’ none, especially when there’s loads of Americans equipped with hydraulic presses which can be used to press halves of magazines from sheet steel or aluminum... which we then glue or weld together with a TIG rig.

Add some coiled music wire, mold a follower from aluminum of pot metal, and you’re done. Wha-la. Magazine in a garage shop - by the dozens if you want them.

All you need to do is make the fixtures and dies onto which you put the sheet metal for bending in a press.


22 posted on 01/09/2013 8:24:10 PM PST by NVDave
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To: Nervous Tick

I hadn’t been paying attention to DIY drones until the last couple of weeks.

Now I’m utterly blown away by the level of development in the DIY drone arena. These are absolutely a game-changer in so many ways.


23 posted on 01/09/2013 8:26:42 PM PST by NVDave
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To: marktwain

Can you define this process a little better?

Exactly what would you ‘print’ on what?


24 posted on 01/09/2013 8:29:56 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Nervous Tick; john in orinda

An inactive freeper, “John in Orinda,” has been doing aerial photography of public events and such for over 10 years with his remote controlled aircraft.


25 posted on 01/09/2013 8:49:17 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

Using a process similar to inkjet printing, one can spray droplets of plastic to form 3d physical objects. Hence the term “3D printing”.

The consequences of this fast growing technology amount to the modern equivalent of Gutenberg’s invention of movable type printing. It will, without hyperbole, change the world. ...and the firearms industry for starters.


26 posted on 01/09/2013 8:54:54 PM PST by ctdonath2 (End of debate. Your move.)
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To: NVDave
***All you need to do is make the fixtures and dies onto which you put the sheet metal for bending in a press.***

I saw a film many years ago, of Norwegians during WWII, making sub machine guns using hand dies and sheet metal.

27 posted on 01/09/2013 9:00:14 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (GUNS.. the rightful property of freemen, and formidable only to tyrannical governments.”)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Yep.

It’s not difficult.

And anyone can easily buy a “H frame” press for their garage or shop. They’re not all that difficult to make, either, if you have some welding skills.

A 25 ton H press would make one magazine at a time pretty nicely.

I think the 20 round AR mags would be easier to make than the 30’s, owing to the lack of the curve in the mag. It’s just straight with a bevel on the bottom. No big deal.


28 posted on 01/09/2013 9:15:30 PM PST by NVDave
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To: editor-surveyor
aerial photography of public events and such for over 10 years with his remote controlled aircraft.

Illegal, however, in the United States if there is any commercial use of the recordings. The FAA has recently made this very clear via stop and desist letters.

From a hobbyist point of view, the real-time video and other sensor data obtained from remote controlled FPV models (FPV = First Person View) is most impressive. Payload is several kilograms.

29 posted on 01/09/2013 9:29:33 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: steve86

He hires out to Bay Area cities all the time. They don’t seem to think its Illegal.

I do topographic surveys by aerial photogrammatry; so do scores of others, daily. It’s very commercial, and advertised in the yellow pages.

Where do you think Google gets their data?

Is Google Map illegal? (LOL!)


30 posted on 01/10/2013 8:43:21 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: RobertClark

I would imagine that you would need at least a two stage die for the stamping of magazines. You would also need a cutting stamp. So there would be the need for three dies. It is the making of the dies that would be complex. I would not want to go with rivets - but spot welding would work.

Just thinking out loud


31 posted on 01/10/2013 8:56:56 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: editor-surveyor

It’s a big topic in the industry and hobby community right now. It doesn’t take much of a Google search to turn up relevant articles and the recent FAA memorandum.

Google maps gets data from manned airborne flights, satellites and quite possibly, unmanned drones in the future. They are/will be all licensed by the FAA for those purposes.

It’s kind of funny to watch the slightly used high-end multicopter video platforms turn up one after another in the hobby classified. Well, it seemed like a good idea to make money at the time. They can be flown, and video captured within usual FAA rules (400 ft altitude, etc.), but not used commercially.


32 posted on 01/10/2013 9:00:22 AM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: editor-surveyor

>>I don’t reccomend it unless you have a degree in chemical engineering.

Actually a degree in chemical engineering would guarantee that you blow yourself up. You would need good lab practices to safely handle the chemicals and that comes from experience as a chemist and not as an engineer.

But, people with the necessary lab experience do exist and since primers are the choke point in the ammunition manufacturing supply chain, it would be good if someone outside of the government-monitored industry found a safe way to manufacture them. After all, percussion caps aren’t some modern thing that can only be made in a billion-dollar factory. They made them in the mid 1800’s in factories that are a lot more primitive than most people’s workshops today.


33 posted on 01/10/2013 9:35:36 AM PST by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Bryanw92

But primers, and their components are normally manufactured by carefully controlled automated processes, requiring an engineer to design them, by law.


34 posted on 01/10/2013 11:12:24 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: ArrogantBustard
A fin-stabilized projectile with a discarding sabot would be interesting also.

You're right. I hadn't thought of that. Looks like there are lots of opportunities for some creative design in 3D printed guns.

35 posted on 01/10/2013 1:42:39 PM PST by JoeFromSidney ( New book: RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY. Buy from Amazon.)
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To: editor-surveyor

>>But primers, and their components are normally manufactured by carefully controlled automated processes, requiring an engineer to design them, by law.

What did we do before we had 20,000 pages of laws?!?


36 posted on 01/10/2013 2:02:45 PM PST by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Bryanw92

We enjoyed life?

(and we have more like 20 trillion pages by now)


37 posted on 01/10/2013 2:05:22 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: marktwain

We could print trillion dollar coins and ship them to treasury and save the country! /s


38 posted on 01/10/2013 5:24:24 PM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: Nervous Tick; NVDave

This is a great discussion of the revolution in small mfging. going on right now. Take a listen or read the transcript.

http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2012/12/chris_anderson_2.html


39 posted on 01/10/2013 7:05:10 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

Very cool! Thanks!


40 posted on 01/11/2013 9:39:29 AM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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