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I can't think of the type of person who likes No Freedom but all the Responsibility.
1 posted on 05/07/2003 4:17:39 PM PDT by HighWheeler
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To: HighWheeler
Thought provoking! As in, provoking thoughts about how somebody can so clumsily misrepresent libertarian positions. Are you truly that misinformed?

2 posted on 05/07/2003 4:21:00 PM PDT by wizzler
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To: HighWheeler
Libertarians: Want Freedom without any Responsibilities.

Many libertarians and libertarian-leaning people believe that the best way to enforce responsibility is to make people bear the costs for their own mistakes. Don't enforce extra penalties for not behaving in 'approved' fashion, but don't try to reduce he naturally-occurring consequences of people's actions either.

3 posted on 05/07/2003 4:21:03 PM PDT by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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To: AntiJen; weldgophardline; Mon; AZ Flyboy; feinswinesuksass; Michael121; cherry_bomb88; SCDogPapa; ..
ping
4 posted on 05/07/2003 4:21:51 PM PDT by HighWheeler
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To: HighWheeler
BTW, you should note that there are two classes of liberals: those who want to control everything, and those who want someone to take care of them. Of course, liberals like to pretend that the Republicans are the party that favors the rich when the super-rich are all liberal Democrats.
6 posted on 05/07/2003 4:27:32 PM PDT by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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To: HighWheeler
Libertarians: Want Freedom without any Responsibilities.

Nonsense.

Only like the parts of the Constitution that don't say that pot is illegal.

Um, that would be all the parts of the Constitution.

11 posted on 05/09/2003 9:24:05 AM PDT by A.J.Armitage (Christ died for the ungodly.)
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To: HighWheeler
Good satire.
It is satire....right?
16 posted on 05/10/2003 3:35:05 PM PDT by Commander8
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To: HighWheeler
"Parent" comes pretty close.

"Willingly endures" is closer than "Likes."
18 posted on 05/13/2003 9:54:36 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle
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To: HighWheeler
You are way off on Libertarians. They take a stand for the constitution. The other two parties (especially that one on the left) are actively destroying it. Libertarians, like conservatives, have taken a huge stand for personal responsibility for ones actions.

I happen to know many Libertarians, none of them do drugs.

I am going to play devils advocate here, you said conservatives want freedom. You also seemed to mention pot in every sentence pertaining to Libertarians. Does the freedom to smoke pot infringe on your freedom in anyway? If yes, how, and doesn't smoking tobacco, or drinking alcohol fit the same category? Is freedom not the ability to do what you want, so long as it does not harm anyone else?

You said "There are no criminals, nothing is illegal." That is not true. They just stick to real crimes, such as theft, rape, and murder. If your actions do not harm anyone else, "go for it." They treat people like adults, and don't legislate personal safety, or morality. If you don't wear a seat belt, or helmet, that is your business. If you want to do drugs, or live a promiscuous life, fine, but don't ask big brother to bail you out when, or if, you hurt yourself.
19 posted on 05/23/2003 12:01:03 AM PDT by dustind
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To: HighWheeler
Don't you think you are over generalizing just a bit?
20 posted on 05/23/2003 11:25:08 AM PDT by tru_degenerate (that which is hidden will eventually come to light)
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To: HighWheeler
Everybody gets on the Drugs thing when it comes to Libertarians. What you're really describing sounds more like anarchists to me...

That being said I like some of the Libertarian positions. They are Constitutional Constructionists in the extreme. Every right in the Bill of rights is an absolute...

Libertarian Position - I get to have full auto weapons AND all the porno I want!

Conservative View - Full auto weapons good! Porno Bad!

Liberal View - Hooray for porno! Guns are for losers! (unless of course we're talking about NOW, in which case porno is bad bad bad, but oh boy, abortions are wonderful!) By the way this is my very first post here. Hi everybody!
24 posted on 06/17/2003 3:46:33 PM PDT by stonegarden
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To: HighWheeler
Either you are not real bright or just cannot understand that the love of freedom is more important to some of us than love of the Republicrat or Demican party, or even the government of the United States! You probably don't even get it that your own room should be your own room and not the government's playground! And who gives a hoot whether so somebody smokes grass and kills somebody in a car? We all know that NOBODY does that with liquor, a legal substance. Right?
27 posted on 07/09/2003 12:55:56 PM PDT by Old Mountain man
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To: HighWheeler
I bow to your eternal wisdom, Holy One.
28 posted on 07/11/2003 7:34:08 PM PDT by thoughtomator (Objects in post may be funnier than they appear)
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To: HighWheeler
Conservatives, Libertarians, and Liberals, want/don't want freedom and responsibility. Good humor should have a bit of reality attached to it. This one fails, as any combination of characteristics can be accurately applied to any of the titles. Examples given in the article are equally absurd.

If being absurd is the objective, I would then propose, that conservatives want only that freedom that is free, and only if they can sell it at a good price.

Libertarians only want freedom for the property owner, only when he is on his own land.

Liberals want freedom to use everything that is not free, without any regard for those who pay for it.

34 posted on 09/20/2003 8:44:58 PM PDT by jackbob
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To: HighWheeler
I can't think of the type of person who likes No Freedom but all the Responsibility.

Actually, this description best applies to conservatives, as it best balances with the description given liberals by the author. Also a marginal number of liberals would believe it to be true.

35 posted on 09/20/2003 8:51:59 PM PDT by jackbob
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To: HighWheeler
I can't think of the type of person who likes No Freedom but all the Responsibility.

Actually, this would be the authoritarian type of person. My reasoning is the authoritarian makes you and me responsible for the wrongdoings of others.

Responsibility without freedom is when alcohol is outlawed because some people can't hold their liquor. You and I may never have been irresponsible, but that doesn't matter. Because some people will misuse a thing, that thing should be banned for all. Because some people exceed the speed limit, all automobiles will have govenors installed. Because some people don't have good money management skills, the government will manage all pensions and healthcare. Because some people overeat and become fat then caloric intake should be regulated. Because some people misuse firearms, no one shall be allowed to own them. This is responsibility without freedom because people are responsible for the folly of others. We are not given a chance to prove responsibility, because we are already responsible for those people who aren't. In this condition there is no need to grow up because everything is planned out. No one willgrow up because the experience of learning from choices is removed. What is there to learn when all choices are removed? Ergo, a society of children.

This contrasts with freedom without responsibility, in which the government shields people from the negative consequences of their actions. In this condition people have free food and free housing and free medical care. It doesn't matter how well or how poorly people manage their own affairs because the government is going to take care of them regardless. In this system people can eat until they are fat and the government will take care of their needs. No one needs to save money or plan for the future because the government is going to take care of them. In this condition people have license (not freedom) to do as they will and they are insulated from the wrongs. Vice is no longer its own punishment. Likewise in this condition there is no need to grow up because the consequenses are separated from the causes. No one will grow up because nothing is taught, what is there to learn with actions and consequences have no relation to each other? Again, a society of children. Note that authoritarianism is closely related to this.

It doesn't matter which method is used, in both conditions people are divorced from suffering the consequences of their acts. In authoritarianism the choices themselves are removed to eliminate the chance bad decisions will be made, and in left-license the results of bad decisions are corrected after the fact. But the results are the same: people are not free. They do not really have liberty either way because as you rightly put it freedom comes with responsibility. Freedom without responsibility is the condition in which people cannot learn from their mistakes and responsibility without freedom is the condition in which people cannot make bad decisions. In the end people learn about those things to which they are exposed, on one hand they learn to not think and on the other they learn to not care.

I consider constitutional conservatism and libertarianism to be essentially the same animal. I know that there is plenty of disagreement with this, but I consider the constitutional conservative at the very least my ally against the authoritarian socialist, if he refuses to be my brother. Brothers you are in my opinion. For myself to be called a republican on drugs is simply a part of sibling rivalry. We pummel each other a lot but when someone outside the family threatens us we close ranks.

Freedom with responsibility does not simply encompass keeping my house within community standards. This is an over simplification to the point of being useless. Freedom with responsibility means that I have a propert right to my house and land. I have the freedom to keep large dogs on my property, but if one of them escapes and attacks an innocent person I must be held accountable for murder. Freedom with responsibility means I may drive a fast sports car but I face criminal negligence at a minimum and murder if I kill someone. Freedom with responsibility means I may go to a bar and drink beer, but I may be pulled over and thrown in jail for many years if I am unable to drive. Freedom with responsibility means I may own firearms and be proficient with their use but if I accidentally kill someone I face manslaughter or if I meant to do it I face the capital of all punishments.

Freedom with responsibility does not mean that I have to conform to community standards, only the law under the constitution. However, this does not mean that I will not suffer the consequences of my careless acts. If through my carelessness I lose my job and I lose my wife, then that I have brought it on myself. If I don't suffer the consequences of these bad decisions I am not free, but likewise if I do not have the freedom to make these bad decisions in the first place I am not free either. In the condition of freedom without responsibility the wrongness of vice is countered by the ministrations of the state, while in responsibility without freedom the choice to indulge in a vice is already countered before the fact. I believe freedom with responsibility means that vice is its own punishment. A drunkard at home suffers from his vice, he has made the decision to drink to excess. However, one he steps behind the wheel he is a criminal and should pay the price for his crimes. Freedom and responsibility means that vices and crimes are both wrongness, but vices bring their own punishments whereas crimes bring the punishment of the law.

So, I would break this discussion down as:

Authority - responsibility without freedom

In liberty - freedom with responsibility

License - freedom without responsibility

Constitutional conservatives and libertarians may dicker over the trivialities, but the socialists and communists are on either sides.

51 posted on 09/22/2003 12:19:36 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.)
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To: HighWheeler
Liberal - economic encroachment with social freedom
Conservative- economic freedom with social encroachment
Moderates- economic encroachment with social encroachment

Libertarian- wants both economic and social liberty.

Paraphrases from "Are you Liberal? Conservative? or Confused?" by Richard Maybury
77 posted on 10/27/2003 7:25:24 PM PST by RunningJoke
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To: HighWheeler
from the reply's you have generated i think you may need to differentiate between what is posted seriously and what is posted as a joke, this post wasn't totally serious ... right? (no problem with the abuse of liberals here, earnest or otherwise)
78 posted on 12/08/2003 7:46:17 AM PST by Joshh86
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To: HighWheeler
I heard that the conservatives of today are like the liberals of yesterday and that the democratic party may be no more. We will have a conservative and a libertarian party in the future.
83 posted on 01/21/2004 6:59:25 PM PST by katz (Rush Rocksert)
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To: HighWheeler
hilarious thread.
108 posted on 02/20/2004 7:38:29 PM PST by freebacon ("Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." - Napoleon)
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To: HighWheeler
hilarious thread.
109 posted on 02/20/2004 7:38:33 PM PST by freebacon ("Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." - Napoleon)
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