Praying for the dead [Purgatory]

CIN ^ | Father Brian Van Hove, SJ

[JMJ333]

One major difference between Protestants and Catholics is that Catholics pray for the dead. As Cardinal Ratzinger said so well, "My view is that if Purgatory did not exist, we should have to invent it." Why? "Because few things are as immediate, as human and as widespread - at all times and in all cultures - as prayer for one's own departed dear ones."

Calvin, the Protestant reformer of Geneva, had a woman whipped because she was discovered praying at the grave of her son and hence was guilty, according to Calvin, of "superstition."

"In theory, the Reformation refuses to accept purgatory, and consequently it also rejects prayer for the departed," Cardinal Ratzinger said in "The Ratzinger Report," a book by Vittorio Messori. "In fact, German Lutherans at least have returned to it in practice and have found considerable theological justification for it. Praying for one's departed loved ones is a far too immediate urge to be suppressed; it is a most beautiful manifestation of solidarity, love and assistance, reaching beyond the barrier of death. The happiness or unhappiness of a person dear to me, who has now crossed to the other shore, depends in part on whether I remember or forget him; he does not stop needing my love."

Catholics are not the only ones who pray for the dead. The custom is also a Jewish one, and Catholics traditionally drew upon the Hebrew Bible text of 2 Maccabees 12:38-46, in addition to some New Testament passages, to justify their belief.

Besides the Jews, many ancient peoples also prayed for the deceased. Some societies, such as that of ancient Egypt, were actually "funereal" and built around the practice.

Spanish-speaking Catholics today popularly refer to All Souls Day as El Dia de los Muertos, a relic of the past when the pre-Christian Indians had a Day of the Dead; liturgically, the day is referred to as El Dia de las Animas.

The French Jesuit missionaries in New France in the 17th century easily explained All Souls Day by comparing it to the local Indian Day of the Dead.

Ancestor worship was also well known in China and elsewhere in Asia, and missionaries there in times gone by perhaps had it easier explaining All Souls Day to them, and Christianizing the concept, than they would have to us in the Western world as the 20th century draws to a close.

The urge to pray for the dead is deep in the human spirit, which rebels against the concept of annihilation after death. Although there is some evidence for a Christian liturgical feast akin to our All Souls Day as early as the fourth century, the Church was slow to introduce such an observance because of the persistence, in Europe, of more ancient pagan rituals for the dead. In fact, the Protestant reaction to praying for the dead may be based more on these survivals and a deformed piety from pre-Christian times than on the true Catholic doctrine as expressed by either the Western or the Eastern Church. The doctrine of purgatory, rightly understood as praying for the dead, should never give offense to anyone who professes faith in Christ.

When we discuss All Souls Day, we look at a liturgical commemoration which predated doctrinal formulation itself, since the Church often clarifies only that which is being undermined or threatened. The first clear documentation for this celebration comes from Isidore of Seville (d. 636; the last of the great Western Church Fathers), whose monastic rule includes a liturgy for all the dead on the day after Pentecost.

The date of November 2 for the liturgical commemoration of the faithful departed was set by St. Odilo (962-1049), who was the abbot of Cluny in France. Before that, other dates had been observed around the Christian world, and the Armenians still use Easter Monday for this purpose. He issued a decree that all the monasteries of the congregation of Cluny were annually to keep this feast. On November 1, the bell was to be tolled and afterward the Office of the Dead was to be recited in common, and on the next day all the priests would celebrate Mass for the repose of the souls in purgatory.

The observance of the Benedictines of Cluny was soon adopted by other Benedictines and by the Carthusians. Pope Sylvester in 1003 approved and recommended the practice. Eventually, the parish clergy introduced this liturgical observance, and from the 11th to the 14th century, it spread in France, Germany, England and Spain. Finally, in the 14th century, Rome placed the day of the commemoration of all the faithful departed in the official books of the Western or Latin Church. November 2 was chosen in order that the memory of all the holy spirits, both of the saints in heaven and of the souls in purgatory, should be celebrated in two successive days. In this way the Catholic belief in the Communion of Saints would be expressed.

Since for centuries the Feast of All Saints had already been celebrated on November 1, the memory of the departed souls in purgatory was placed on the following day. All Saints Day goes back to the fourth century, but was finally fixed on November 1 by Pope Gregory in 835. The two feasts bind the saints-to-be with the almost-saints and the already-saints before the resurrection from the dead.

On All Souls Day, can we pray for those in limbo? The notion of limbo is not ancient in the Church, and was a theological extrapolation to provide explanation for cases not included in the heaven-purgatory-hell triad. Limbo does not appear as a thesis to be taught in the new Universal Catechism of the Catholic Church.

In fact, Cardinal Ratzinger was in favor of the notion of limbo being set aside. In "The Ratzinger Report," he said, "Limbo was never a defined truth of faith. Personally - and here I am speaking more as a theologian and not as Prefect of the Congregation - I would abandon it since it was only a theological hypothesis. It formed part of a secondary thesis in support of a truth which is absolutely of first significance for faith, namely, the importance of baptism. To put it in the words of Jesus to Nicodemus: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God' (John 3:5). One should not hesitate to give up the idea of limbo, if need be (and it is worth noting that the very theologians who proposed 'limbo' also said that parents could spare the child limbo by desiring its baptism and through prayer); but the concern behind it must not be surrendered. Baptism has never been a side issue for faith; it is not now, nor will it ever be."

The doctrine of purgatory, upon which the liturgy of All Souls rests. is formulated in canons promulgated by the Councils of Florence (1439) and Trent (1545-1563). The truth of the doctrine existed before its clarification, of course, and only historical necessities motivated both councils to pronounce when they did. Acceptance of this doctrine still remains a required belief of Catholic faith.

What about indulgences? Indulgences from the treasury of grace in the Church are applied to the departed on All Souls Day, as well as on other days, according to the norms of ecclesiastical law. The faithful make use of their intercessory role in prayer to ask the Lord's mercy upon those who have died. Essentially, the practice urges the faithful to take responsibility. This is the opinion of Michael Morrissey in the Dictionary of Catholic Spirituality: "Since the Church has taught that death is not the end of life, then neither is it the end of our relationship with loved ones who have died, who along with the saints make up the Body of Christ in the 'Church Triumphant."' This assumes, of course, that they died in a state of grace and are finished with purification via purgatory.

Morrissey adds that "the diminishing theological interest in indulgences, today is due to an increased emphasis on the sacraments, the prayer life of Catholics and an active engagement in the world as constitutive of the spiritual life. More soberly, perhaps, it is due to an individualistic attitude endemic in modern culture that makes it harder to feel responsibility for, let alone solidarity with, dead relatives and friends."

As with everything Christian, then, All Souls Day has to do with the mystery of charity, that divine love overcomes everything, even death. Bonds of love uniting us creatures, living and dead, and the Lord Who is resurrected, are celebrated both on All Saints Day and on All Souls Day each year.

All who have been baptized into Christ and have chosen Him will continue to live in Him. The grave does not impede progress toward a closer union with Him. It is only this degree of closeness to Him which we consider when we celebrate All Saints one day, and All Souls the next.

Purgatory is a great blessing because it shows those who love God how they failed in love, and heals their ensuing shame. Most of us have neither fulfilled the commandments nor failed to fulfill them. Our very mediocrity shames us. Purgatory fills in the void. We learn finally what to fulfill all of them means. Most of us neither hate nor fail completely in love. Purgatory teaches us what radical love means, when God remakes our failure to love in this world into the perfection of love in the next.

As the sacraments on earth provide us with a process of transformation into Christ, so purgatory continues that process until the likeness to Him is completed. It is all grace. Actively praying for the dead is that holy mitzvah or act of charity on our part which hastens that process. The Church encourages it and does it with special consciousness and in unison on All Souls Day, even though it is always and everywhere salutary to pray for the dead.

[Matchett-PI]

"You are applying modern values to the Middle Ages."

Really?

To this very day, in the 21st century, wherever the Church of Rome has political power, the Bible is still shunned as "dangerous". It still does all it can to keep the closed canon of Scripture away from the people.

To this very day, in the 21st century, the Roman Church has never retracted its official denial of religious freedom and what it considers to be its right to use violence to force people to accept its doctrines.

This is documented by the Hefleys in their book, By Their Blood: Christian Martyrs Of The 20th Century, (Mott Media, 1979)

"Calvin and Luther were not very big on religious freedom either --- both Catholics and Protestants burned witches at the stake"

Luther and Calvin had been indoctrinated by, and steeped in Roman catholicism all their lives. De-programming takes time.

But God is patient, and as events unfolded, it is clear that he considered it more needful to reform his church back to the origional theological doctrines first.

And as his reformation proceeded, he showed the ones he was using to do it (and their students) many biblical principles, including the fact that he created all men equal and that they and receive their rights and freedoms (including religious freedom) from him.

Eventually, those of that "REFORMED" church came to America. Luckily, of the 55 Framers of the Constitution, 45 of them were very strong Calvinists. They made absolutely sure when they drew up our founding documents, that no religious tyrant of ANY stripe would ever be able to gain absolute political power in America.

The non-establishment clause of the First Amendment absolutely prohibits the theological doctrines of the Bible to be explicitly woven into the fabric of government.

However, America was founded on biblical *principles* by Christian men who had a deep commitment to the closed canon of Scripture.

The Biblical view of the world -- the existence of God who is active in human history, the authority of the Scripture, the inherent sinfulness of man, the existence of absolute objective morality, and God-given transcendent rights -- was the philosophic foundation of the Constitution. The American community presumed a common set of values which were principally biblical.

The founding principles of the Republic were clearly informed by biblical truth.

As long as America's Constitution and Bill of Rights are upheld, we will have nothing to fear from tyrants who falsely teach their "faithful" that the infallible Word of God is a "dangerous" book, and refuses to retract its official denial of religious freedom and what it considers to be its right to use violence to force people to accept its doctrines, just has in the past.

The only thing that prevents it from enforcing its religion on the world, is absolute political power.

God, himself, is the inspiration for our Constitution. Those who want to dictate to, and dominate others, hate it....

....just like they hate the true God and his infallible Word, the closed canon of Scripture.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

The builders themselves will be saved, but like someone escaping through a wall of flames.

This says exactly what I am saying but like someone escaping. It is likening it to escaping through fire, but not actually being in fire.

I won't belabor this point further.

First no one asked you too:), second if you don't want to debate why participate here?

Becky

[SoothingDave]

What does the bible mean in Heb. were it says, one scrafice perfected believers forever. What you are saying by believeing in purgatory is that you weren't perfected by the one sacrafice, that you have to add to it by going to purgatory to finish the job.

I don't know why you insist on seeing a conflict here. Purgatory is how the one sacrifice makes the change in us from imperfect to perfect.

It is the application of the sacrifice.

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Oh nooo...it followed me over here!!!!

:)

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Seriously: What did Christ mean on the cross when he said "It is finished."

Becky

[SoothingDave]

Seriously: What did Christ mean on the cross when he said "It is finished."

He meant that His Sacrifice, His Saving Work was finished. He didn't mean that everyone who was going to be saved because of it was saved at that moment. The sacrifice is finished, but the effects of the sacrifice carry on throughout time. Like ripples in water.

SD

[billbears]

curious bump

[Rambler]

To this very day, in the 21st century, wherever the Church of Rome has political power, the Bible is still shunned as "dangerous". It still does all it can to keep the closed canon of Scripture away from the people.

Where is this, specifically?

[Matchett-PI]

M-PI: "To this very day, in the 21st century, wherever the Church of Rome has political power, the Bible is still shunned as "dangerous". It still does all it can to keep the closed canon of Scripture away from the people."

R: "Where is this, specifically?"

The countries are documented by the Hefleys in their book, By Their Blood: Christian Martyrs Of The 20th Century, (Mott Media, 1979).

I can only point you to one of the sources. I don't have the time to do your research for you, sorry.

[Rambler]

I can only point you to one of the sources. I don't have the time to do your research for you, sorry.

Well I would have thought that you'd do the research for yourself before you posted an outrageous claim like this.

The claim you made "To this very day, in the 21st century, wherever the Church of Rome has political power, the Bible is still shunned as "dangerous". It still does all it can to keep the closed canon of Scripture away from the people." had to be your own original because the book you referenced is dated 1979.

[Codie]

MEMINISSE IUVAT (On Prayers For The Persecuted Church)
Pope Pius XII

Encyclical Promulgated on 14 July 1958
To the Venerable Brethren, the Patriarchs, Primates, Archbishops, Bishops, and other Local Ordinaries in Peace and Communion with the Apostolic See.

Venerable Brethren, Greetings and Apostolic Benediction.

1. It is helpful to recall, when new dangers threaten Christians and the Church, the Spouse of the Divine Redeemer, that We—like Our Predecessors in bygone days—have turned in prayer to the Virgin Mary, our loving Mother, and have urged the whole flock entrusted to Our care to place itself confidently under her protection.

2. Thus, when the world was rocked by a terrible war, We did not simply preach peace to citizens, peoples, and nations, nor did We merely work to restore to mutual agreement—under the standard of truth, justice, and love—those whom strife had divided. On the contrary, when all human resources and human plans proved ineffective, in many letters of exhortation and in a holy crusade of prayer We invoked heaven's help through the mighty intercession of the great Mother of God, to whose Immaculate Heart We consecrated Ourselves and the whole human race.[1]

3. By now, of course, that war is over, but a just peace does not yet prevail, nor do men live in concord founded on brotherly understanding. For the seeds of war either lurk in hiding or—from time to time—erupt threateningly and hold the hearts of men in frightened suspense, especially since human ingenuity has devised weapons so powerful that they can ravage and sink into general destruction, not only the vanquished, but the victors with them, and all mankind.

4. If we weigh carefully the causes of today's crises and those that are ahead, we shall soon find that human plans, human resources, and human endeavors are futile and will fail when Almighty God—He who enlightens, commands, and forbids; He who is the source and guarantor of justice, the fountainhead of truth, the basis of all laws—is esteemed but little, denied His proper place, or even completely disregarded. If a house is not built on a solid and sure foundation, it tumbles down; if a mind is not enlightened by the divine light, it strays more or less from the whole truth; if citizens, peoples, and nations are not animated by brotherly love, strife is born, waxes strong, and reaches full growth.

5. It is Christianity, above all others, which teaches the full truth, real justice, and that divine charity which drives away hatred, ill will, and enmity. Christianity has been given charge of these virtues by the Divine Redeemer, who is the way, the truth, and the life,[2] and she must do all in her power to put them to use. Anyone, therefore, who knowingly ignores Christianity—the Catholic Church—or tries to hinder, demean, or undo her, either weakens thereby the very bases of society, or tries to replace them with props not strong enough to support the edifice of human worth, freedom, and well-being.

6. There must, then, be a return to Christian principles if we are to establish a society that is strong, just, and equitable. It is a harmful and reckless policy to do battle with Christianity, for God guarantees, and history testifies, that she shall exist forever. Everyone should realize that a nation cannot be well organized or well ordered with religion.

7. As a matter of fact, religion contributes more to good, just, and orderly life than it could if it had been conceived for no other purpose than to supply and augment the necessities of mortal existence. For religion bids men live in charity, justice, and obedience to law; it condemns and outlaws vice; it incites citizens to the pursuit of virtue and thereby rules and moderates their public and private conduct. Religion teaches mankind that a better distribution of wealth should be had, not by violence or revolution, but by reasonable regulations, so that the proletarian classes which do not yet enjoy life's necessities or advantages may be raised to a more fitting status without social strife.

8. As We reflect on this subject, from a vantage point that enables Us to transcend the tides of human passion and to love as a father the people of every race, two matters come to mind which cause Us great worry and anxiety.

9. The first of these is that there are some countries in which Christian principles and the Catholic religion are not given their proper place. Great numbers of the citizens, especially from the ranks of the uneducated, are easily won over by widely published errors, particularly since these are often colored with the appearances of truth. The seductive allurements of vice, which tend to corrupt minds through all sorts of publications, motion pictures, and television performances, are a special menace to unsuspecting young people.

10. There are writers and publishers whose goal is not to turn their readers to truth, virtue, and wholesome entertainment, but to stir up vicious and violent appetites solely for the sake of gain, and even to assail and defile with lies, calumnies, and accusations all that is holy, beautiful, and noble. Unfortunately, the truth is often distorted; lies and scandals are published abroad. The obvious result is damage to civil society and harm to the Church.

11. And secondly, We are aware—to the great sorrow of Our fatherly heart—that the Catholic Church, in both its Latin and Oriental rites, is beset in many lands by such persecutions that the clergy and faithful, if not in so many words, certainly in fact, are confronted with this dilemma: to give up public profession and propagation of their faith, or to suffer penalties, even very serious ones. As a result, many bishops have been driven from their sees or so impeded that they cannot freely exercise their ministry; they have even been cast into prison or exiled. And so with rash daring men undertake to fulfill the words: "I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered."[3]

12. In addition, newspapers, magazines, and other publications put out by Catholics have been almost completely silenced, as if truth were subject to the exclusive control and discretion of political rulers, and as though divine and human learning and the liberal arts need not be free if they are to flourish for the public and common good.

13. Schools once conducted by Catholics have been interdicted and closed; those that replace them either teach nothing at all of God and religion, or—as is more common—expound and popularize the lethal tenets of atheism.

14. Missionaries who have left their homes and dear native lands and suffered many serious discomforts in order to bring the light and the strength of the gospel to others, have been driven from many regions as menaces and evil-doers, so that the clergy who remain, since they are too few in relation to the region's population, and are also hated and persecuted in their turn, cannot adequately provide for the needs of the faithful.

15. The Church's rights, including the right, under the mandate of the Holy See, to choose and consecrate bishops who will lawfully govern the Christian flock, have been trod under foot, to the great loss of the faithful, as if the Catholic Church were a creature of a single nation, dependent on its civil authority, and not a divine institution extending to all peoples.

16. But despite these grave and distressing problems, a thought comes to Us which gives Our paternal heart great comfort. It is this: We know that most of the faithful, of both the Latin and the Oriental rites, are practicing and defending their ancestral faith tenaciously—despite the fact that they have not the help and assistance which their lawful pastors could give them, were they not far away or otherwise impeded. These Christians hold fast to the faith with courage, and place their hope in Him who knows well the tears and suffering of those "who suffer persecution for justice' sake,"[4] in Him who "does not delay in his promises"[5] but will some day comfort his children with the reward they have earned.

17. In a particular way, therefore, We exhort with paternal affection those of Our Venerable Brothers and beloved children who are under many dangerous and deceitful pressures—pressures which would urge them to stop supporting the firm, solid, and constant unity of the Church and that close union with the Apostolic See without which this unity cannot have a sure foundation.

18. This unity is, indeed, being attacked by false doctrines and by a variety of insidious strategems. But all should remember that the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, the Church, must be "closely joined and knit together through every joint of the system according to the function in due measure of each single part,"[6] "until We all attain to the unity of the faith and of the deep knowledge of the Son of God, to perfect manhood, to the mature measure of the fullness of Christ,"[7] whose Vicar on earth is—by divine appointment—the Roman Pontiff, as successor of Peter.

19. They should recall and meditate upon the wise words of Saint Cyprian, bishop and martyr: "The Lord spoke thus to Peter: I say to thee, thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church…[8] On Peter alone He raised His Church … We must all resolutely preserve and defend this unity, but especially we bishops who govern the Church…

20. "For the Church is one, although she embraces greater and greater multitudes in the course of her prolific growth. So the sun has many rays, but one light; a tree has many branches, but one trunk rooted firmly in the ground; and when many streams issue from a single source, though their number seems to come directly from the abundance of flowing water, still there is only one source. Shut out a ray of the sun: the unity of its light has not been sundered; tear a branch from a tree: that branch no longer puts forth shoots; block a stream from its source: that stream dries up.

21. "In like manner, the Church is steeped in the Lord's light and spreads the rays of that light through the world: but it is one light and its unity is not several. The Church extends her branches over the whole world in rich profusion; her full, flowing streams spread everywhere: but there is only one trunk, only one source…

22. "And He who does not have the Church as his mother, cannot have God as his father… He who does not uphold this unity does not uphold the law of God, does not uphold the faith of the Father and the Son, and has neither life nor salvation."[9]

23. These words of the saintly martyr and bishop afford comfort, encouragement, and a shield of strength—especially since they cannot maintain communication with the Holy See (or cannot easily do so) and are in serious peril, since they must surmount many obstacles and deceits. Those in such a plight should rely upon God's help, which they must never cease to implore in humble prayer. They must remember that all who persecute the Church—as history shows—have passed like shadows, but the sun of God's truth never sets, because "the word of the Lord endures forever."[10]

24. The society which Christ founded can be attacked, but not defeated, for she draws her strength from God, not from man. And yet, there is no doubt that she will be harassed through the centuries by persecutions, by contradictions, by calumnies—as was the lot long ago of her Divine Founder—for He said: "If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also."[11] But it is equally certain that, just as Christ our Redeemer rose in triumph, so the Church shall someday win a peaceful victory over all her enemies.

25. Have confidence, therefore; be brave and steadfast soldiers. We wish to counsel you in the words of St. Ignatius, martyr, although We know you do not require such counsel: "Serve Him for whom you fight… May none of you desert Him! Your baptism must be a shield; your faith a helmet; your charity a lance; your patience a suit of armor. Your works should be your credentials, so that you may be worthy to receive your reward."[12]

26. And the beautiful words of Bishop St. Ambrose should give you sure hope and unwavering courage: "Hold on to the tiller of faith so that the rough winds of this world may not bandy you. The sea is vast and large, but do not fear; for he has established it (the earth) upon the water, and set it firmly upon the rivers.[13] And so it is understandable that the Lord's Church stands unmoved among the waves of this world, for she is built on the apostolic rock and holds fast to her foundation, unmoved by the onslaughts of the raging sea.[14] She is battered by the surf, but is not shaken. The physical elements of this world crash with thunder about her, but she provides a safe port for those who toil on the deep."[15]

27. In the apostolic age, when the Christians of a particular region were suffering unusual hardship, all the others—united with them by the bonds of charity—raised suppliant prayers to God, the Father of mercies, with the one accord of brothers, that He might deign in His goodness to strengthen the hearts of their brothers and might cause better times to come quickly upon the whole Church.

28. So too today, Venerable Brothers, We pray that God's comfort may descend, in answer to their brothers' prayers, upon all in Eastern Europe and in Asia who are oppressed by a wretched and inimical state of affairs.

29. And since We have great confidence in the intercessory power of the Virgin Mary, Mother of God, it is Our ardent wish that, during the novena customarily held before the Feast of the Assumption, all Catholics throughout the world raise public prayers to heaven for the Church, which is—as We have said—afflicted and harassed in certain lands.

30. We confidently hope that Mary will not refuse or leave unfilled Our entreaties and the unanimous prayers of all Catholics—she whom We, with divine approval, decreed and proclaimed, in the Holy Year of 1950, to have been taken up, body and soul, into the abode of blessedness in heaven;[16] she whom We solemnly declared and ordained to be properly venerated by all mankind as the Queen of Heaven;[17] she, finally, whose maternal graces We invited a multitude to enjoy on the centenary of her appearances, as a gracious giver of gifts, in the grotto of Lourdes to an innocent girl.[18]

31. By your entreaties and your example, Venerable Brothers, may the flocks entrusted to you approach the altars of the Mother of God prayerfully and in great numbers on the days named. May they pray with one voice and one spirit that she who "became a cause of salvation to the whole human race"[19] might obtain for the Church the freedom she needs if she is to bring men to eternal salvation, re-enforce just laws with the mandates of conscience, and bolster the bases of civil society.

32. Through Mary's maternal intercession, they should pray particularly that shepherds kept far from their flocks, or otherwise restrained from the free exercise of their ministry, may be restored as speedily as possible to the positions they formerly, and properly, held; that the faithful who are beset by intrigues, falsehoods, and dissension, might find strength in the full light of truth and in unqualified union and charity; that the wavering and weak might be so strengthened by God's grace that they will be ready and able to bear up under any hardship without abandoning Christian faith and Christian unity.

33. We ardently pray that every diocese might soon have its lawful shepherd again. May Christian principles be taught freely in all lands and among all classes of citizens.

34. May the young, in grade schools and high schools, in workshops and on farms, escape the snares of materialistic, atheistic, and hedonistic doctrines, which cripple the wings of the mind and cut the sinews of virtue. May they rather be illumined with the light of the wisdom of God's gospel, which will rouse, raise, and direct them to what is best.

35. May the gates of truth be everywhere unobstructed; may no one bar those gates unjustly. May all men realize that nothing can withstand for long the force of truth or charity.

36. And, finally, may the heralds of the gospel soon seek out again the peoples whom they once led to Christ with apostolic zeal and exhausting toil, and whom they ardently desire to raise to a richer Christian and civil culture, even at the cost of difficulty, toil, and adversity.

37. May all the faithful ask these favors of the dear Mother of God; and for those who persecute the Christian religion may the faithful implore forgiveness in that spirit of charity which led the Apostle of the Gentiles to say, "Bless those who persecute you."[20] They should also be mindful to pray that these men be given God's grace and heavenly light, which alone can scatter the shadows of error and set consciences aright.

38. But, as you well know, Venerable Brothers, a renewal of Christian life must accompany these public petitions. Otherwise such prayers are idle words, which cannot be wholly pleasing to God.

39. And so, out of that ardent and zealous charity with which all Christians are bound to love the Catholic Church, they should address their prayers to heaven, but they should also offer interior acts of penance, works of virtue, sacrifices, inconveniences, and all the pains and hardships under which we labor, of necessity, in this mortal life, but which we should occasionally, take upon ourselves voluntarily, in a spirit of generosity.

40. Through this sound renewal of their way of life, joined with suppliant prayers, they will win God's favor for themselves and for holy Church, whom they must embrace as they would a loving mother.

41. The faithful should present the sort of picture—as often as circumstances require—which is described so wonderfully, beautifully, and meaningfully in the Letter to Diognetus: "The Christians … are in the flesh, but do not live by the flesh. They dwell on earth, but they are citizens of heaven. They obey valid laws, and even go beyond the demands of law in the conduct of their lives. They love all men, and yet all men persecute them. They are not understood, and yet they are condemned; they are put to death, and yet their life is quickened… They are dishonored, and yet in the midst of dishonor they find honor. Their good name is railed at, and yet is presented as evidence of their justice… When they conduct themselves like honest men, they are punished like criminals; while they are being punished, they rejoice as though they are being exalted...[21]

42. "To express all this briefly: what the soul is to the body, Christians are to the world."[22]

43. If a Christian way of life flourishes again, as it did in the age of the Apostles and martyrs, then we can reasonably hope that the Blessed Virgin Mary—who longs with a mother's heart that all her sons should live virtuously—will graciously heed our prayers and will soon grant, in response to our petitions, happier and more peaceful times for the Church of her Only Begotten Son and for the whole human society.

44. We wish, Venerable Brothers, that you will make Our wishes and exhortations known on Our behalf, in the way you think best, to the faithful entrusted to your care. Meanwhile, as a pledge of heaven's blessing and a witness of Our paternal good will, We lovingly impart Our Apostolic Benediction to each of you, to the flocks entrusted to you, and individually to each of those who suffer persecution and torment because they defend the rights of the Church and give evidence of the love they bear her.

45. Written at Rome, in Saint Peter's, on the fourteenth day of July, in the year 1958, the twentieth of Our Pontificate.

LATIN TEXT: Acta Apostolicae Sedis, 50 (1958), 449-59.

ENGLISH TRANSLATION: The Pope Speaks, 5 (Summer, 1958), 29-37.

REFERENCES:

1. Cfr. Acta Apostolicae Sedis, 34 (1942), 345-46.

2. Cfr. John 14:6.

3. Matt. 26:31; cfr. Zach. 13:7.

4. Matt. 5:10.

5. 2 Pet. 3:9.

6. Eph. 4:16.

7. Eph. 4:13.

8. Cfr. Matt. 16:18 ff.

9. Cyprian, De unitate Ecclesiae, IV, V, VI: PL IV, 513, 514, 516-20.

10. 1 Pet. 1:25.

11. John 15:20.

12. St. Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to St. Polycarp VI, 2: PG V, 723-726.

13. Ps. 23:2.

14. Cfr. Matt. 16:18.

15. Saint Ambrose, Epistle 11: PL XVI, 917.

16. Cf. the Bull Munificentissimus Deus AAS (1950) 753 ff.

17. Cf. the encyclical letter Ad Caeli Reginam: AAS (1954) 625 ff.

18. Cfr. the apostolic constitution Primo exacto: AAS (1957) 1051 ff. [Eng. tr. in TPS (Winter 1957-58) vol. 4, no. 3, pp. 259 ff.—Ed.], and the encyclical epistle Le Pelerinage de Lourdes: AAS (1957) 605 ff.

19. Saint Irenaeus, Contra haereses III, 22: PG VII, 959.

20. Rom. 12:14.

21. Epistle to Diognetus V: PG II, 1174-1175.

22. Ibid. VI: PG IV, 1175.

COMMENTARlES:

Christianus. "L'enciclica di Pio XII Meminisse iuvat " Vita e Pensiero, 41 (agosto, 1958), 536-37.

"New encyclical asks for prayers for persecuted Church." CAIP News, 19 (August, 1958), 1-3.

[SoothingDave]

Well I would have thought that you'd do the research for yourself before you posted an outrageous claim like this.

Anti-Catholics don't need documented facts or sources. That the Church is the embodiment of evil is a given.

SD

[Rambler]

Anti-Catholics don't need documented facts or sources.

I guess what bothers me is that these people don't even have the intellectual presence to question for themselves whether the things they are claiming are reasonable or not.

[Fithal the Wise]

Your explanation of 1 Cor 3:15 is a possible interpretation. However my reply to your post was meant to highlight that the Catholic NAB bible in its footnote on the passage surprisingly does not support your view that it refers to Purgatory. I think that in this case the footnote view is correct and probably based on a line of thinking as follows:


"so as through fire" ( Zec 3:2 Amo 4:11 Jud 1:23 ). As a builder whose building, not the foundation, is consumed by fire, escapes, but with the loss of his work [ALFORD];

as the shipwrecked merchant, though he has lost his merchandise, is saved, though having to pass through the waves [BENGEL]; Mal 3:1, 2 4:1 , give the key to explain the imagery. The "Lord suddenly coming to His temple" in flaming "fire," all the parts of the building which will not stand that fire will be consumed; the builders will escape with personal salvation, but with the loss of their work, through the midst of the conflagration [ALFORD]. Again, a distinction is recognized between minor and fundamental doctrines (if we regard the superstructure as representing the doctrines superadded to the elementary essentials);

a man may err as to the former, and yet be saved, but not so as to the latter (compare Phl 3:15 ).saved; yet so as by fire--rather, "so as through fire" ( Zec 3:2 Amo 4:11 Jud 1:23 ). "Saved, yet not without fire" ( Rom 2:27 ) [BENGEL].

As a builder whose building, not the foundation, is consumed by fire, escapes, but with the loss of his work [ALFORD];

as the shipwrecked merchant, though he has lost his merchandise, is saved, though having to pass through the waves [BENGEL]; Mal 3:1, 2 4:1 , give the key to explain the imagery. The "Lord suddenly coming to His temple" in flaming "fire," all the parts of the building which will not stand that fire will be consumed; the builders will escape with personal salvation, but with the loss of their work, through the midst of the conflagration [ALFORD].

Again, a distinction is recognized between minor and fundamental doctrines (if we regard the superstructure as representing the doctrines superadded to the elementary essentials); a man may err as to the former, and yet be saved, but not so as to the latter (compare Phl 3:15 ).

[CCWoody]

St woody! Would you care to tell us why this teaching was accepted until your man decided to reinvent Christianity? Can you make a post without a slap at Rome? I doubt it. You're too petty and simple-minded for real debate.

Can you make a post without a slap at Rome?.... your man decided to reinvent Christianity

I guess the slap is a matter of perspective.

So, tell me, what teaching are you talking about--The one I responded to in my post where a man's digits were cut off one at a time because he didn't believe in (among the many things) praying for the dead or the specific teaching of praying for the dead itself?

A better question than "why this teaching was accepted" would be why was/is this anti-Biblical doctrine taught in the first place.

[JMJ333]

Why should I answer your questions? You don't have manners God gave a head of lettuce.

And if you really want to know the answer, go back and read the thread. But it really doesn't matter. The teaching has been put forth since Judaic times, passed down through the apostles. But since Calvin says its not true, then I guess you'll not believe it. After all, why believe 1500 years worth of doctrine when you can scrap it in favor of a highbrow elitist who reinvented Christianity for those who think themselves chosen above all others?

[JMJ333]

I posted on that other thread last night before I went to bed. The only thing I posted this morning was a note to you. I am home a bit early and will answer your post now.

[JMJ333]

Thanks for the bump bill. Nice to see you.

[JMJ333]

I am sorry, I am not real sharp, especially after 10:00 at night, I missed this. But in finding it today, I still see no specific scripture reference to why you believe this. Can you give me one/some?

I answered you in post 28. You didn't accept it because you don't accept Maccabees and a few others. Since you didn't accept Maccabees, I then traced it back to the foundations of Christianity and then explained how the bible is not a full scale doctrinal thesis. As I pointed out, it doesn't purport Catechism or teachings for the most part. You don't accept that either. I then explained to you that they purported doctrine and teachings for some 300 years before the bible was apporved and ratified. That doesn't hold weight with either. My last question was "Do you think the first 1500 years of Christianity erred?"

I will also ask you on who's authority do you have it that maccabees isn't inspired and other parts of the bible are? How do you know the right letters and gospels got put into the bible? How do you know that some inspired works weren't left out? My point is that you take the word of people who were no where close to apostolic times over people...many of whom knew the Lord and passed down the teaching by word of mouth until the bible was put together.

I guess we can agree to disagree. I thank you for the polite debate and for making the thread interesting. Regards.

[Sock]

A further argument is supplied by St. Paul in I Cor., iii, 11-1,5: "For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay stubble: Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." While this passage presents considerable difficulty, it is regarded by many of the Fathers and theologians as evidence for the existence of an intermediate state in which the dross of lighter transgressions will be burnt away, and the soul thus purified will be saved. This, according to Bellarmine (De Purg., I, 5), is the interpretation commonly given by the Fathers and theologians; and he cites to this eftect:

• St. Ambrose (commentary on the text, and Sermo xx in Ps. cxvii),
• St. Jerome, (Comm. in Amos, c. iv),
• St. Augustine (Comm. in Ps. xxxvii),
• St. Gregory (Dial., IV, xxxix), and
• Origen (Hom. vi in Exod.).

See also St. Thomas, "Contra Gentes,", IV, 91. For a discussion of the exegetical problem, see Atzberger, "Die christliche Eschatologie", p. 275.

Catholic Encyclopedia

However my reply to your post was meant to highlight that the Catholic NAB bible in its footnote on the passage surprisingly does not support your view that it refers to Purgatory.

As you know, the Catholic Church teaches (de fide) that a place of purgation exists after death.

Whether or not the NCCB agrees with my quote from the brilliant Catholic apologist James Akin or any other apologist in the interpretation of this one singular passage is not an indictment against the apologist. The fact is that the Church has not infallibly defined most of what is written in scripture and so you are free to believe or not to believe that this individual passage refers to Purgatory.

However, the consistent teaching of the Catholic Church based on the whole of scripture and sacred Tradition beginning with the Fathers of the Church, is that there is a place or condition in which the souls of the just are purified after death and before they can enter heaven. Some may want to argue against the existence of Purgatory, but they would be wrong. Akin has given a very reasonable exegesis of I Corinthians (and many other verses as well) and I will go along with his reasoning and the Doctors of the Church who have written similarly concerning I Corinthians.