Hmmm... notice the halo effect going on here? ;o)
Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Hmmm... notice the halo effect going on here? ;o)
Um, it says this:
The story is a Christianized version of one of the legends of Buddha,
That's not the same thing. There are several points. First of which is that the thing is a legend. Did you not see where I said that canonization as a rigid procedure is relatively new? Many of the "saints" that you might find stories of probably never existed.
Second, it is out of our control what people do with one of our saints. The Muslims have made a prophet of our Jesus. That does not mean we can not regard Jesus as we wish.
If some "Buddha" movement has sprung from this legend, more power to them. It doesn't change the "facts" about the Christian saint.
SD
Dave, you are reading this precisely backwards. Siddhartha Gautama (the Buddha) was an historical person. The "St. Josaphat" movement sprung from the "legend" of his life, translated into Christian terms. There never was an historical "St. Josaphat". Or, viewed a different way, the real Gautama became, as the legend of his life travelled westward, "St. Josaphat".
And the assembly line process with which JP II has been turning out Saints doesn't give you pause for thought?
What i was wondering is would a Jew possibly interpret Ephraim or the Northern Kingdom as being Christianity? The author sites the Christian offense as forsaking God's Torah. Further along in the chapter Hosea is pretty specific:
Hosea 6:6-10
(6) For I desire mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings
(7)But they, like men, have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.
(8) Gilead is a city of them that work iniquity, and is polluted with blood.
(9)And as troops and robbers wait for a man, so the company of priests murder in the way by consent: for they commit lewdness.
(10)I have seen an horrible thing in the house of Israel: there is the whoredom of Ephraim, Israel is defiled.
Becky
I think by quoting this Psalm (68:18) that Paul was essentially saying that when Christ ascended he set us free from the captivity, or slavery, of sin.
This seems to be borne out in Paul's writing from Romans:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Christ set him free from the captivity of sin same as Ephesians.
Eph 4:9-10(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Here he is saying that Christ was once up in heaven with the father, descended down to the earth (to lead us out of our captivity to sin) and then ascended again.
The "lowest" part of the earth probably means Christs lowered state, the state of man on the earth in which Christ humbled himself:
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
And....
Phi 2:7 but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,
Phi 2:8 and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death--death even of a cross,
I believe now, that when we die, the unsaved still go to Hades in the bowls of the earth, but the saved will go to Paradise in heaven,
Are those that go into the grave that are not saved doomed forever?
Yes it is Messianic.
What i was wondering is would a Jew possibly interpret Ephraim or the Northern Kingdom as being Christianity?
Yes. I don't have the authors' name but there were 3 books at a Hebraic Roots seminar I attended a couple of weeks ago that I plan to order. (Didn't have enough money with me at the seminar. :-) by a non-christian orthodox jew who puts forth a pretty strong argument that Christianity is Ephraim.
The author sites the Christian offense as forsaking God's Torah. Further along in the chapter Hosea is pretty specific:
Hosea 6:6-10 (6) For I desire mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings (7)But they, like men, have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me. (8) Gilead is a city of them that work iniquity, and is polluted with blood. (9)And as troops and robbers wait for a man, so the company of priests murder in the way by consent: for they commit lewdness. (10)I have seen an horrible thing in the house of Israel: there is the whoredom of Ephraim, Israel is defiled.
Yes all of these points could be a result of forsaking the Torah.
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