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To: ebb tide

Fr. Gerald Murray of New York sounds like a Protestant.
What occurred in the Vatican has occurred many times in different circumstances throughout Roman Catholicism. In Roman Catholic teaching, is it not possible to be saved by good works outside of Christ, such as other religions? So why would this ceremony bother a pope or other Roman Catholics?


4 posted on 10/12/2019 10:29:48 AM PDT by rephope
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To: rephope
In Roman Catholic teaching, is it not possible to be saved by good works outside of Christ, such as other religions?

Nobody is saved apart from the merits of Jesus Christ, and nobody can earn their own salvation on their own by good works. (I am a Catholic, and can easily defend the foregoing from official Catholic teaching documents.)

6 posted on 10/12/2019 10:39:52 AM PDT by Campion ((marine dad))
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To: rephope; ebb tide
"in Roman Catholic teaching, is it not possible to be saved by good works outside of Christ, such as other religions?"

I don't know whee you got this, but you have been misinformed.

You can find Catholic dogmatic statements affirming Jesus as the unique (one and only) savior of the world, in every century of the Church's existence.

In 2000, the Church issued a detailed doctrinal statement -- "Dominus Iesus" (The Lord Jesus) --- specifically repudiating the teachings of some false theologians, claiming that Jesus is just one of many possible means of salvation, or that he only offers salvation to certain people.

This position, the document said, “has no biblical foundation. In fact, the truth of Jesus Christ, Son of God, Lord and only Savior, who through the event of his incarnation, death and resurrection has brought the history of salvation to fulfillment, and which has in him its fullness and center, must be firmly believed as a constant element of the Church’s faith” (par 13).

Anyone who states the opposite, is marketing a line of baloney.

12 posted on 10/12/2019 11:31:00 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Let us commend ourselves, and one another, and our whole life, unto Christ Our God.")
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To: rephope

And oh! So -— if anybody gets on this thread and contradicts my reply at#12, please say, rather politely, “Baloney.”


14 posted on 10/12/2019 12:01:29 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Let us commend ourselves, and one another, and our whole life, unto Christ Our God.")
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To: rephope

You are misinformed.


18 posted on 10/12/2019 4:52:04 PM PDT by pbear8 (the Lord is my light and my salvation)
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To: rephope; Mrs. Don-o
In Roman Catholic teaching, is it not possible to be saved by good works outside of Christ, such as other religions? So why would this ceremony bother a pope or other Roman Catholics?

You must assumed that when the CCC states,

"Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification and for the attainment of eternal life (Catechism of the Catholic church, Part 3, Life in Christ, Merit, 2010)

And Trent (not Trump) stated,

"nothing further is wanting to the justified [baptized and faithful], to prevent their being accounted to have, by those very works which have been done in God, fully satisfied the divine law according to the state of this life, and to have truly merited eternal life." (Trent, Chapter XVI; The Sixth Session Decree on justification, 1547)

If anyone says that the good works of the one justified are in such manner the gifts of God that they are not also the good merits of him justified; or that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit an increase of grace, eternal life, and in case he dies in grace, the attainment of eternal life itself and also an increase of glory, let him be anathema." (Trent, Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 32.

that it means saved by good works, which it does, "by God's grace," but not outside of Christ and the Catholic church (though what being part of it may mean sees debate among RCs) , though Catholicism allows that those ignorant thru no fault of their own may be saved if they somehow find Christ as their Lord and Savior.

That would be contrary to the paganism which was celebrated on Vatican grounds, while the Catholic salvation thru grace by merit gospel is also false.

Which [url=https://peacebyjesuscom.blogspot.com/2019/06/basically-what-is-roman-catholic.html]RC doctrine of salvation [/url], means that he act itself (ex opere operato) of baptism (even without the required personal wholehearted repentant justifying faith: Acts 2:38; 8:36,37) effects regeneration and makes one actually good enough (justified by his own righteousness: causa formalis)  to be with God - until  his remaining  sinful nature manifestly shows he is not, thus resulting in the [url=https://peacebyjesuscom.blogspot.com/2018/10/did-new-testament-church-believe-in.html]false doctrine of RC Purgatory [/url]  in order to become good enough to be with God (and atone for sins).

However, it is heart-purifying regenerating faith such as effects the obedience of baptism (all that we voluntarily choose to do is a result of what we truly believe, at least at the moment) that is counted for righteousness.  (Acts 2:38; 10:43; 15:7-9; Rm. 4:5; Titus 3:5;)

And which evidences faith, and thus those who will believe and obey are promised salvation, (Heb. 5:10) just as those who believe. (Jn. 3:16) Cause and effect must go together, as with forgiveness and healing in cf. Mk. 7:2-16, but the effect is not to be made the cause.

Thus believers are made accepted in the Beloved, and spiritually made to sit with Him in Heaven, (Eph. 1:6; 2:6) on His account, and have access with boldness into the holy of holies in Heaven by His inless shed blood, (Heb. 10:19).

And thus they will go to be with the Lord at death or at His return and the believers resurection, being henceforth forever with the Lord. (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17)

And which event is the next transformative event believers looked to in the NT church, that of being conformed to Christ at the resurrection of believers at the coming of the Lord. (2Cor. 5:2,3; 1Cor. 15; 1Jn. 3:2)

And after the Lord's coming is the judgment seat of Christ, with its giving and loss of rewards (Mt. 16:27; 1Cor. 3:8-17; 4:5; Rm. 14:10; 2Cor. 5:10; 1Thes. 2:19; 2Tim. 4:1,8; Rev.11:18; ; 1Pt. 1:7; 5:4; cf. Mt. 13:30,39; 25:31-46; Jn. 5:29; Rev. 20:5,6) based on the quality of the material they used to build the church with.

But the loss (1Cor. 3:14,15) of fruit and rewards (along with the implicit grievous displeasure of the Lord) is the only suffering mentioned for believers after leaving this world (versus purgatory, which has souls suffering upon death). And which loss is not that of personal defects but the fruit of such as providing material for building the Lord's church, and which loss the believer is saved despite of. (1Cor. 3:15)

Hope this too-prolix an explanation will suffice.

19 posted on 10/12/2019 7:48:14 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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