Posted on 05/14/2019 12:13:01 PM PDT by fwdude
I’m sorry you have to go through the tribulation. You could become a Baptist like me and escape it. haha
“There will be those who believe in Jesus and are killed after the Rapture of the Church. These are the ones who are gathered.”
Where does the Bible specify that?
Also, the verses in Matthew 24 are part of a discussion Jesus had with his disciples, who already believed, who were asking him how the end of the world would come about and Jesus was telling them what to watch for. If they would already be raptured by the time those things were taking place, then why would Jesus be bothering to tell them to watch out for those things that they would never see?
I’m a reformed Baptist and believe in historical premillenialism like fellow Baptist George Eldon Ladd.
The pre-trib stuff is based partly on confusing tribulation with wrath. They are not the same thing. Jesus said we would have tribulation. There isn’t a single verse which divides the coming of Jesus for his church to rapture them and his return to judge the earth into two events. That passage in Matthew teaches that his coming to rapture his saints is a public event which the whole world will see and the rapture is part of his public return and happens right at the end. It is just a straightforward reading of the passage.
I'm fine with anyone believing whatever they want.
However, this teaching stretches back further than you claim.
A Brief History of the Rapture
best
15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
I thought I would include the earlier verses to put things properly in context. Again Jesus is warning of tribulation and tough times for believers. Great tribulation, such as has never been seen he calls it. We had better be prepared for that I think. And again he stresses that his return will be unmissable, “as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west”.
Evidence of a rapture is like the wind in the bible it is there but never see the word rapture. much like second thessalonians’s those gentiles left behind will fall under the great delusion, the tribulation is for the house of jacob, israel to be saved. All gentiles left behind will be handed over ro the anti christ.
Except that the seals at the start of the tribulation are the wrath of God ... even unbelievers during the 6th seal recognize it as the wrath of God.
The tribulation is to fulfill abrahams covenant so his children will be saved. Only jews will be saved during the tribulation, and all others turned over to the great delusion. The fall feasts of israel are yet to be fulfilled Christ fulfilled all the spring feast, thus we are in the harvest now awaiting the feast of trumpets or rapture
Demonstrably false ...
The purpose of the tribulation has nothing to do with the church.
I just read the article, and I think it’s kind of misleading in claiming that the pre-tribulation rapture and dispensationalism have historical roots prior to the 1800’s. What the Church fathers believed was not the same position at all. Imminency, preparedness and expecting the return of Jesus and anticipating it are not the same as believing that the return of Christ happens in two stages, sorry.
Daniel 9 ...
Again, read the essay. All of your questions are answered there.
Ever read foxes book of martyrs? Better still, what did Jesus allow to happen to his own disciples? Do you know how they died? Yet somehow it offends you that the church might go through tribulation prior to the return of Jesus? I don’t get it.
Then please, differentiate the two.
You are correct ...
Tribulation is a testing of the faith. A refining or the gold and silver of what God has produced in us through sanctification. Wrath is God’s judgement and punishment poured out on sinners.
Jesus promised believers tribulation in John 16:33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”
Revelation 7:14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Tribulation is promised to believers, believers go through the tribulation in Revelation.
I read where a guy named Darby back in the early eighteen hundreds formulated that idea then a preacher named Schofield enhanced it and it became really vogue in the Seventies with the One Way movement.
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