Honestly, that just indicated to me that God was outright lying to Abraham when he entered that barter game. Think about it, God’s omniscient, knows everything, so he’d know long before he created the world that Sodom and Gomorrah would lack even 10 innocent civilians or... heck, any number of innocent civilians that aren’t Lot and his family. Broke his own commandment of “Thou Shalt Not Lie” when doing that barter game. Had he been honest, then the very second Abraham tried the barter game with God, he’d shoot down the attempt and telepathically assault Abraham with various images of Sodom and Gomorrah’s sinful nature, leaving Abraham cataconic. I’ve even written up a version showcasing exactly how God would have acted if he were genuinely honest, and it’s as follows (bear in mind, this isn’t in the actual bible, as if that needs to be said):
“Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will exterminate them without even a second thought!”
Abraham remained standing before the LORD. Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? Far be it from you to do such a thing — to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
The LORD said, “Don’t even bother trying to barter with me, weak mortal! I am your Lord, God! I am all-knowing, not to mention all-powerful, you’re a mere insect before me! I have known, and seen, since before I even created this world, that Sodom and Gomorrah, barring Lot and his family, has no innocents! You can try to ask if I’ll spare it for 50, 45, 40, 30, 20, heck, even 10, and my answer will remain the same: No innocents are present in Sodom and Gomorrah, save for Lot and his family. Since you dared try to even stand on equal footing before me, dared make the foolish decision to even try to barter before someone who is superior to you in every way, I will make you see things my way!”
Then the LORD proceeded to bombard Abraham with mental images of the exact state of sinful affairs of Sodom and Gomorrah with unrestrained rage, with Abraham being overwhelmed at witnessing all the sins known to the LORD being channeled right to him, with Abraham, realizing the LORD was being fully honest of what his plans were and what Sodom and Gomorrah’s actions were truly like, being so broken that he could barely even stand, or even react to his surroundings. The LORD then proceeded to order his angels to commence the destruction, and then turned to Abraham and, with a smirk on his face, said “yes, wallow in the helplessness as you should before me, I am all good, and you, being a son of Adam, are trash waiting to be destroyed, especially after you tried to barter with me. You exist solely to obey my every whim and not question ANY of my decisions!” Then Lot and his daughters appeared out of thin air. “But don’t worry”, said the LORD, “I made sure to teleport Lot and his daughters out, just for you. For I am also a merciful God, as merciful as I allow myself to be anyway. Lot’s wife won’t be making it, though, as I already predicted she’ll end up staying behind due to a conflict of interest!””
The end result would have ultimately been the same with that passage, where Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed, Lot and his daughters ended up being evicted before its destruction, and his wife perished as a result of Sodom and Gomorrah’s destruction. The only real difference in that passage is that God doesn’t enter the barter game, and even makes sure Abraham paid dearly for even daring to question him, and is fully honest about it. Since that’s what full honesty entails, brutality. And make no mistake, I could come up with a worse ending for that version, where God made sure Lot and his family perished in Sodom and Gomorrah, both as punishment for Abraham daring to speak up, and also to ensure Abraham couldn’t idolize anyone but God himself.
When I think of someone who’s omniscient... well, these scenes come to mind regarding the following characters (either directly shown or mentioned by their cohorts):
*The Patriots (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrVThXFnE1s&t=196s), specifically, Ocelot’s statement of “Your plans have been invalidated, even before execution, Solidus”, in reference to Solidus’s revolt against the Patriots.
*The Patriots, again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKl6WjfDqYA
*The Architect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADMptNF3O5c
*Palpatine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVl_sjUrNQE
*Chatturgah/Xellatoth/Uyaoth (specifically, one of the monks associated with him, when they said Charlemagne’s fate had been decided centuries before Anthony’s time, alongside the fate of the world): https://youtu.be/mRgvtOK2o5U?list=PL15099A3BEC8B0EBB
*Heck, Bahamut from Final Fantasy XV from these scenes: https://youtu.be/okLrvAIuRYU; https://youtu.be/PJX4tEr7NIk?t=174 Especially the latter scene.
Yeah, not a very pleasant thought on omniscience, I’ll admit that much, but it at least matches up with the definition of omniscience.
Don’t get me wrong, Sodom and Gomorrah definitely deserved their death, regardless of whether it was a genocide or not. But nevertheless, God ultimately lied to Abraham by doing that barter game at all. At least if he broke Abraham completely, he’d be honest with him.
I know it’s over a year old, but either way, needs to be said.
Not a lie, God got 4 people out before he destroyed it. God said nothing about what he’d do if his own angels were threatened with sexual assault. God did not destroy the righteous along with the wicked.
Abraham was acting as a tenderhearted intercessor and I believe God honored that, giving Abraham respect and dignity over his concerns. Abraham already knew Sodom to be wicked which is why he refused to take any direct rewards for the defeat of Sodom’s enemies when Abe rescued lot.(What he did take was given as a gift to Melchizidek).
We see the same principle when God, angry with Israel for their disobedience, determined to destroy them and offering to make of Moses a great nation. Moses interceded and while agreeing that Israel was a stiffnecked people nevertheless persuaded God to withhold destroying them completely.
We see the same principle again when the entire Earth was noted to be filled with sin, God made in Flesh, came to earth to die for us and intercedes for us before God the Father.
We see the same principle of hope and possible intercession at the final judgment when all the books are opened so that one may, at last possible moment just might find oneself written in the Lamb’s Book of Life...otherwise why have a final judgment at all, if God already knows all? Who will be that last possible intercessor that saves us from hell fire? God is judge and many will see hell but I think there will be surprises as well. The Bible says that the Father is not willing that men should perish but rather have everlasting life....I think that was Christ’s first imperative as it was for Moses for his nation and as it was for Abraham for the sake of any righteous in Sodom and Gomorrah!
It is never defiant to ask God for mercy especially for those of the wicked who might yet be saved. God may know all but he was also tender and sparing of Abraham’s heart and knew of his concerns for his nephew Lot. He said that he would spare the city for the sake of 10 but silence from God to Abraham about the real situation in Sodom was not a lie for God already had a plan to get Lot and his family out of Sodom and indeed the city of Zoar was spared as Lot had gotten permission to stay there as God destroyed Sodom.(hence Zoar being spared by Lot’s righteousness) The destruction of Sodom was a tacit message to Abraham that God had not found 10 righteous people, though I’m sure Abraham later learned that Lot had been spared.
Funny, this was the reading today at Mass.
Abraham knew that Lo, Lot’s Wife, two daughters, and two guys after the daughters were in Sodom—
going from 10 to five, the next step, would indicate that not even all the core group could be counted on—and one would think that the core group and a few others could be found.
But as the story unfolds, six becomes four, becomes three, becomes one at best.
Abreham didn’t realize just how shot people were.
Christ, and Christ alone, is righteous of himself, but through, and only through, his power others can be joined to him.